The photo shows the lugs we are planning to use on the production Velo Orange randonneur. They are made by Long Shen and the quality is first rate. The top lug will be 73 degrees, not 74 as shown. The tubing will be traditional size, and that limits the choices since most lugs made today are for oversize tubes.
Now back to the new blog look, seeing as a few of you prefer the old style, I'll make some changes to add more orange, etc. The new template will remain because it offers the following advantages: There is a button to easily go to the posts past the first page. There is an Atom feed button. This template expands to full width on most screens. It is much faster for me to make edits and add links.
If I had more skill, or any skill, with HTML I could add all this to the old template, but I don't and can't. Nonetheless, it is gratifying (and perhaps a bit weird ;-), that there are 32 comments on the previous post.
Finally, we will be closed on Labor day.
31 August, 2007
Lugs and the Look
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23 comments:
Chris,
I like the lugs. Nice and simple, classy. Have the other frame details been hammered out yet? Sidepull or Canti? With brazeons for the Randonneur rack? Is the ETA still Spring, or has that been pushed back?
Thanks
Very nice and clean. Personally, I'm not a fan of overly complicated lugs. I prefer them to be simple and minimalist in a form-follows-function way.
I hate me too's. But, me too. Like c said, very classic. I even like them even more stripped down - bikini?
The only thing I would feel really strongly about is that the down tube SHOULD NOT BE OVERSIZED!
Cool, we get to talk about bicycles for a change.
I agree with Neil and have never understood the point of an oversized steel road frame.
I do hope you plan to go with a lightweight steel. Too many of the production steel frame out there (Surly, Soma, Bleriot, etc.) seem to be heavier than needed. It's not so much a gram counting thing but rather a ride quality issue. Most of these bikes seem to have a pretty dead/flat ride to them when compared to a lightweight steel bike. My Soma Smoothie ES is a nice bike but the ride isn't exactly what you'd call lively.
Very nice lugs - the simpler, the better.
If I could make one change, I'd choose a fork crown that has two points running down the outside of each fork blade - as does the Sachs crown spec'd on the semi-custom frames. I've always preferred two points to the "single point down the middle" as seen on the Long Shen crown in the photo.
Neil, While I'm a great fan of bikinis, I don't care for bikini lugs. Though they look nice many builders feel they can lead to early frame failure. There was a thread about this on one of the forums a month or two back, the frame buiders forum I think.
C, Yes, light traditional sized tubes are the plan. The tubes will be made in Japan by the same mill that make the tubes for most Kirin bikes, in fact they will be, in most cases, the same tubes.
Annon, And I've been telling Richie he should have a single point crown made. Sheesh...
I really like the single point on that fork crown, and even more appealing is the exterior window. When do you expect these bikes to be ready? --Oldmill
I posted the first single vs. double point comment...
I guess I equate single point crowns with lesser quality UJB's and the like because they tend to be somewhat ubiquitous on vintage bikes (and newer budget minded crowns such as Surly, Soma, IRD, Kogswell, etc.) I've only seen a nicely done double point crown on great bikes - such as my 1984 Specialized Expedition and my 2007 Velo Orange.
nv
I think the frames will be ready by Spring, or at least late Spring. I'm meeting with the president of Toyo in a couple of weeks to get the details ironed out.
NV, How about some photos of your bike for the blog?
Chris -
I know I've promised photos for a while now and I apologize for the delay - I haven't forgotten...
I've been expecting a new Nikon DSLR which is due to arrive next Wednesday.
I'll forward pix as soon as I'm able. The bike, IMO, is really lovely.
nv
Okay, let's load it up and fire away. I think think most flat top fork crowns are clunky and graceless. Maybe it's my irrational love of all things Italian, particularly design, but I like the Cinelli semi-sloping crown - that which Richie called "boring" or something to that effect. He's misguided too. Or maybe it's a matter of opinion and taste - or the lack thereof ?
Do bikini lugs actually fail or do they just look like they might? Which of course is the fascination with all bikinis, isn't it?
Flat top fork crows are the only way to go. So there Neil. :)
Chris I poked back through past posts but I think I might have missed something about the randonneurs. Are you having toyo build semi-production randonneur frames?
neil berg said...
...I like the Cinelli semi-sloping crown - that which Richie called "boring" or something to that effect. He's misguided too. Or maybe it's a matter of opinion and taste - or the lack thereof?
it's all here atmo -
http://tinyurl.com/yqtbte
um, is there fairly strong evidence pointing towards premature tube failure with 'can opener' style lugs such as those pictured? why not a rounded spoon shape for the underside of the lug?
Johnson: The builder files the lugs down, preventing what little risk of tube failure the lugs may present.
Long Shen hasn't been rated among the top lug makers for years because it's product destroy tubes.
Oh, and Chris, I think these are right handsome lugs that do your design proud.
having seen and owned japanese and taiwanese built lugged frames (riv included) i dont think they do too much thinning of the lug points. that's one of the things that separates one by one custom from semi production.
As Richie has already shamed me out of loving semi-sloping, maybe I'll hae to settle for a twin plate. Here's a link with a couple of Richie's among others. Some really beautiful stuff
http://platedforkcrown.blogspot.com/
March 4 and November 5 are by Tom Oswald, the guy who made my camper.
Tom is an artist but a practical one. He convinced me to go with a unicrown for strength and longer trail.
It is hard not to be jealous looking at those lovely double plates.
Johnson, I'm not sure that can opener lugs are really a big issue, but I do plan to ask Toyo to grind down those lower points. Might as well be safe.
As for production versus custom bikes, There are some who would have you believe that there is little difference. For many people there is little functional difference, but the quality of construction is very different.
K, Yep, the plan is to have Toyo build a production Randonneur and for a Taiwanese shop to build a VO city bike.
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