tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post7156914893536569954..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Belleri Bars and International TradeVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62075512379784772262007-12-30T16:50:00.000-05:002007-12-30T16:50:00.000-05:00hey dude, you would greatly benefit from the DVD I...hey dude, you would greatly benefit from the DVD I mentioned earlier in the thread:<BR/><BR/>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/film/reviews/47077/where-is-the-world-going-mr-stiglitz/<BR/><BR/>Spoiler: You have it backward as to our neighbors to the south.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32364545948941740742007-12-30T12:10:00.000-05:002007-12-30T12:10:00.000-05:00hey dude,Few things are as simple as they appear o...hey dude,<BR/>Few things are as simple as they appear on the surface. NAFTA opened the Mexican markets to our subsidized farm produce, particularly corn. THe low price of our corn starved subsistence farmers off the land which had been in their families for generations. There are few jobs in Mexico's cities for uneducated farmers, so they are forced to come over the border to feed there families. I'm not arguing that NAFTA is all bad or that there is not issues with our relationship with Mexico, but I'm not certain who is the parasite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-3898925748382607262007-12-30T00:54:00.000-05:002007-12-30T00:54:00.000-05:00interesting comments about china; though i think c...interesting comments about china; though i think china has much less direct impact in our country than our neighbors to the south of our borders do. our relationship with china is more mutually beneficial,even with the quality control issues.they are very savvy people who will learn quickly how to compete in the marketplace.whereas our neighbors to the south have a very parasitic relationship with the usa,with them being the main benefactors.hey dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01699131817238696845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-73409047566028357362007-12-29T23:43:00.000-05:002007-12-29T23:43:00.000-05:00z-man, care to tell us how many of those "war crim...z-man, care to tell us how many of those "war criminals" have been convicted, when they finally get a trial?<BR/><BR/>Due process only applies to American citizens? Huh? The neocons change that, too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51192562451825024952007-12-29T18:32:00.000-05:002007-12-29T18:32:00.000-05:00Even if you are not a car owner driver you are sti...Even if you are not a car owner driver you are still a major consumer of petroleum products my friend.<BR/>War criminals do not have to be charged, ever. Due process is a luxury afforded only American citizens.<BR/>The Kyoto Treaty is the biggest lopsided bunch of B.S that ever came down the road, even worse than NAFTA.<BR/>Every country supports a dictatorship somewhere, and that sa truth is that in an unstable region, a dictatorship may be a better alternative.<BR/>Until everybody, myself included, is going to walk the walk as well as talk the talk, face it, everything you use, consume, buy, sell, eat, drink, sleep on, and wipe your butt with is at the mercy of petroleum. Got a cure for that? Then go right ahead, because if you do, you're in the wrong business, and should get right to work bringing that solution to the masses.<BR/>Until then appreciate how good you have it where you're at. Not perfect, but better than anywhere else, by far.z-manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09572343329703287829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-52427990855295218202007-12-28T19:58:00.000-05:002007-12-28T19:58:00.000-05:00If the choice is between products made in a countr...If the choice is between products made in a country that starts wars for the sake of oil, holds prisoners without trial for years and even tortures them, refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement, and supports dictatorships, and products from another country where there is also concern over human rights and pollution, then that is a difficult choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-84149973622370038852007-12-28T18:44:00.000-05:002007-12-28T18:44:00.000-05:00Yes, Gunner,I have noticed the love Curt has for G...Yes, Gunner,<BR/><BR/>I have noticed the love Curt has for GP (Curt not being exactly the effusive type either, as far as I can tell).<BR/><BR/>I personally have never owned a Goodrich or CG built Riv, but do have a CG built Paramount. My favorite production bikes used to be the Japanese and Taiwanese Bridgestones. I'm eagerly awaiting the VO production bikes.<BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>mw<BR/>mw: Michael WhiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-18001337515908668922007-12-28T17:54:00.000-05:002007-12-28T17:54:00.000-05:00mw,While I agree with most of your points, I would...mw,<BR/>While I agree with most of your points, I would point out that Curt is making very fewer and fewer Riv frames these days. They are a small and decreasing part of his business. This may be by his choice or possibly because of price creep compared to the Bleriots. For whatever the reason, he has only good things to say about Rivendell and Grant Peterson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49774636436027197322007-12-28T16:45:00.000-05:002007-12-28T16:45:00.000-05:00Not all importers list country of origin, as, for ...Not all importers list country of origin, as, for instance, Rivendell does. This is a rather nice PC gesture, by the way. This issue has nothing to do with the loss of jobs, or of such a thing as the "manufacturing middle class." There was never such a thing here, in the bike industry. I am 51, and have been a rider, racer, tourist, commuter, and all around bike consumer since I was about 5. In all that time, I remember one bike, for sure, that was a mass-produced domestic product, the same lousy Schwinn many youths had in the 60's before moving up to a Raleigh or Gitane. I'm not counting my various American custom bikes. The adult market has always been an import market. Your LBS owner knows this well. If he has been in business as long as mine has, he has put food on his table selling English bikes in the 60's, French bikes in the 70's, Japanese bikes in the 80's . . . and Taiwan came to prominence soon thereafter. All of these booms, including and especially the heavy Chicago Schwinns, involved their fair share of environmental disasters. The factories moved because they had to; it had nothing to do with East or West, it was business. There does seem to be an unfortunate tinge of racism in pointing fingers consistently at Asia or China, and not at other countries a bit higher on the industrial food chain. <BR/><BR/> We are no longer blacksmiths or ploughmen, and our middle class has moved on to other industries, along with the rest of the world. It is not Chris' mission to restore domestic jobs to a sector which never had them. Your LBS owner is a good man or woman, whose job it is, first, to sell a California-designed, Asian-made beach cruiser (for instance) to a student who knows full well she can get one which looks very similar for half the price at Walmart. His job is also to get her on the bike, keep her on it, and keep some percentage of the population in his town on two wheels (regardless where they're made) if that is possible, and this is truly noble work which might also keep bread on his table. This is noble work, the backbone of this international industry, and what Chris wants to do with VO is also noble work. <BR/><BR/>In the economics of the industry, most domestic bespoke builders neither want nor could sustain a larger role, though they certainly do fulfill the needs of a minority. Like me.<BR/><BR/>I think what Chris wants to do with VO is somewhat different, and so he is doing a version of what all designers do, whether it's Sinyard of SBC or Peterson of RBW--he's going to the builders for high end, but also going to the factories for production models. He has a vision. The factories he's working with are long established, and I'm pretty sure no American workers are being harmed. Criticizing him, and that is certainly how I take some of the posts here, seems to me misdirected at best. It would be somewhat analagous to criticizing Steve Jobs because the actual soldering isn't done in California.<BR/><BR/>It's pretty hard to think of a product that doesn't cross any borders. Modern life is inherently messy and international. I suppose we all would like to feel that our purchases have meaning or impact. It's a personal and symbolic gesture, of course. Personally, if I thought I could influence my own govt. to act differently in its foreign affairs by using less oil, I would. Actually, I already use less oil. <BR/><BR/>As far as I can tell, Chris' intentions insofar as workers and the environment are at least as wholesome as anyone else in the industry, but of course there's nothing wrong with suggesting that he continue to emphasize this. He is keeping domestic as well as international sources busy helping fulfill his vision. Would it help Curt Goodrich if consumers boycotted RBW for sourcing Bleriots in Taiwan? No, it would hurt him. As a true mom and pop bike outfit, VO is different, and inspiration for all. It is what it is; it's a bike company. <BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>mwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-25325226938524381462007-12-28T13:15:00.000-05:002007-12-28T13:15:00.000-05:00I remember when someone bought the Converse shoe b...I remember when someone bought the Converse shoe brand. Up until 6 or 8 years ago they were some of the last sneakers you could buy that were made in the US. Once they had been bought, the production moved to China, but the price stayed the same, maybe even went up. That was a clear example of the company shafting the American worker solely for profits. I also remember the last pair of Vans I bought - on the box it said, more or less, "made one at a time in California, because that's the best way" At the time it was the only model still made in the US.<BR/><BR/>I think what many people have a problem with is the companies that prioritize profits over their communities (in this case the larger American community). <BR/><BR/>I'm also worried about widening class divide in this country, as the direct result or the willful sacrifice, by 'business' of the manufacturing middle class.<BR/><BR/>The issues of environment, third world working conditions, walmarts, chinese military (and missiles), energy dependence, degrading education... these are all real issues. It's foolish to suggest that people that are concerned about these issues are racist because they have trouble connecting them all together in one sound bite. So they say "don't buy in China" <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, there's something to be said for the fact that international trade lifts other countries up, help prevent wars, etc.<BR/><BR/>It took me more than a few minutes to read all the posts above, and there was some repeated points, but there was alot of points of view, many of them relevant. I can't boil them down to a paragraph or two, does that make me racist? I'm sorry if you think so.<BR/><BR/>Some people here seem to trust VO to consider factory conditions, etc. when sourcing products, but to do so without at least asking would be ignorant of the 95 percent of businesses that don't give it a second thought.<BR/><BR/>I'll tell you this - I usually buy used but when I'm buying new, I'm willing to pay twice as much for something made in this country. I don't have the opportunity to make that decision very often. VO racks let you put your money where your mouth is, and that's pretty nice. I'd like to see that continue. I'd also appreciate clear statements of product origin for each product, even the smallest ones. Alot of companies just say 'imported' but that doesn't really cut it when you contrast say, China and Taiwan.thechammphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00636406459402950666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-69736005536477651932007-12-26T11:46:00.000-05:002007-12-26T11:46:00.000-05:00I would agree with David and add further that when...I would agree with David and add further that when I read that people would rather do business with a foreign country rather than or before an American company, I get really disappointed. It's not because I'm a n nationalist or a racist, but because it seems so short-sighted. If one spends one's disposable income on foreign-made goods he/she is taking work away from an American worker. Where this becomes un-nationalist is here-the person who saves on foreign-made goods will likely, ultimately spend 10x that amount in higher taxes to support the American worker who can no longer make a living and is now unemployed, requires re-training at gov't expense, or gets a lower-paying job and can pay less in taxes. The Chinese, French, Germans, Swedes are looking out for themselves 1st as they should. Does anybody really believe they will return that favor?<BR/>Have there been abuses of this type of flag-waving thinking? Yes of course-just look at the legacy costs of purchasing an American-brand automobile, but the vast majority of reasons to patronize a U.S. are compelling in a positive way.<BR/>This is not a "love-it-or-leave-it" type of post, but if we don't take care of America, who will. Certainly China will someday (hopefully) be forced to clean their act up both environmentally and humanly, it's inevitable, but let's not create a revolution here while trying to support the People's Revolution.z-manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09572343329703287829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-67022149190261058132007-12-24T16:53:00.000-05:002007-12-24T16:53:00.000-05:00This will be the longest post I ever made on the V...This will be the longest post I ever made on the VO blog I think.<BR/><BR/>> The whole anti-China thing that > we sometimes encounter in the US <BR/>> smacks to me of nationalism and > even racism.<BR/><BR/>Respectfully disagree. While it may be unfair to discriminate against honest workmen in China (and I certainly agree that a Chinese worker is no better or worse than anyone else in any other part of the world), boycotting is the only way to get governments to take action.<BR/><BR/>China is ruining our planet. Environmental degradation has stark domestic and international repercussions. Chinese cities often seem wrapped in toxic gray shrouds. Only ~1 percent of the country’s 560 million city dwellers breathe air considered safe by US standards. Environmental woes that would be considered catastrophic in some countries are commonplace in China: industrial cities where people rarely see the sun; children killed or sickened by lead poisoning or other types of local pollution; a coastline so swamped by algal red tides that large sections of the ocean no longer sustain marine life. <BR/>China’s problem has become the world’s problem. Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides spewed by its coal-fired power plants fall as acid rain on Seoul and Tokyo. Many meteorologists posit that much of the particulate pollution over Los Angeles originates in China.<BR/><BR/>China seems to me like a teenage smoker with emphysema. The costs of pollution have mounted well before it is ready to curtail economic development. <BR/><BR/>To aggravate the problem, manufacturing equipment is often medieval and hopelessly inefficient. E.g., according to the World Bank (figures quoted in _The Economist_ three issues ago), Chinese steel makers, on average, use 20 percent more energy per ton than the international average. Cement manufacturers need 45 percent more power, and ethylene producers need 70 percent more than producers elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>Make no bones about it: I personally despise China and everything it stands for. Of course there are many honest and decent businessmen there and they have the right to pursue a living. But the only way to coax the necessary governmental actions is to boycott Chinese products. I personally will no longer knowingly buy anything produced in China. Of course the chance of actually being able to pull that off is somewhere between slim and none.Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-64019642054312341842007-12-23T15:42:00.000-05:002007-12-23T15:42:00.000-05:00As many others have pointed out, this post is a co...As many others have pointed out, this post is a contentious issue. I hope to weigh in a little bit without merely reiterating what others have said.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being too reductive, it seems as though there are two main viewpoints regarding global capitalism expressed in this blog. On the one hand, some - including chris- suggest that we need to embrace this global market in a positive and productive way, something like voting with your dollar on a macro-economic scale. On the other hand, some folks seem highly reticent to accept the perceived ills of global capitalism which are inherent to it, including the massive transportation/fuel costs and the lack of transparency.<BR/><BR/>While Chris makes an excellent point regarding the borderline racism expressed in anti-Chinese-production sentiments, I think that, all things being equal, local, domestic markets are favorable to international ones. Not because the quality is better, not because "we" produce better stuff or deserve more than "them," but because it is the most economically, environmentally, politically stable way of doing things, for all the reasons discussed in the above comments.<BR/><BR/>So I find myself in a bind when considering purchasing nice components created internationally. Although I'm resistant at all to adopting "voting with my dollar" as a political strategy, I still find myself somehow lured in by the strategy's guilt-alleviation properties. So when I think about the things VO is making, I find luxury parts. They are, by and large, status-oriented, albeit functional and beautiful, parts. Before I get lynched, let me say that I appreciate and support what VO does in producing beautiful, lasting parts. But I also recognize that much of my attraction to VO originates in aesthetic, not functional, concerns. I am forced to Iook at the items VO makes, and ask myself whether a) those items already exist on the market in an inexpensive form (cable hangers, pedals, handlebars, chainguards); b) whether, if those items were high-cost because of being US-made, I could do without them. The answers to these questions to lead me to one conclusion: to the extent that these items already exist (and are already sold at a price point accessible to those who can't afford fancy stuff), I am paying for luxury. And to the extent that I'm paying for luxury, I think that I probably oughtn't have the option to buy it in any way but the most sustainable (politically, economically, environmentally) possible. When do we have enough? Why should we have a right to nice stuff at a low price point? If I can't afford to have it made here, do I really need it? These are the murky waters which I am - and I hope others are - still navigating.<BR/><BR/>And make no mistake, I'm no rich elitist: I make less than $10,000 per year. I still manage to buy some nice stuff for myself, but can't buy the nicest of everything. Sometimes the less expensive (or used) stuff works as well as the high-polish stuff. It may not look as nice, but it works. And I know that most of it comes from Asia, but the argument for buying $10 Taiwanese pedals instead of $30 Taiwanese pedals seems stronger to me than the one for buying $30 Taiwanese pedals instead of $60 American pedals, especially when the difference between them is largely cosmetic.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being presumptuous, I hope that VO fosters, on the scale that it fosters the Taiwanese industry, the domestic component industry. As that industry grows, domestically made, high-quality stuff will become less expensive and more accessible to all.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the length of this comment, but I believe this to be an important and provocative issue worth taking some time to talk and read about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-33214144910777228022007-12-23T15:41:00.000-05:002007-12-23T15:41:00.000-05:00As many others have pointed out, this post is a co...As many others have pointed out, this post is a contentious issue. I hope to weigh in a little bit without merely reiterating what others have said.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being too reductive, it seems as though there are two main viewpoints regarding global capitalism expressed in this blog. On the one hand, some - including chris- suggest that we need to embrace this global market in a positive and productive way, something like voting with your dollar on a macro-economic scale. On the other hand, some folks seem highly reticent to accept the perceived ills of global capitalism which are inherent to it, including the massive transportation/fuel costs and the lack of transparency.<BR/><BR/>While Chris makes an excellent point regarding the borderline racism expressed in anti-Chinese-production sentiments, I think that, all things being equal, local, domestic markets are favorable to international ones. Not because the quality is better, not because "we" produce better stuff or deserve more than "them," but because it is the most economically, environmentally, politically stable way of doing things, for all the reasons discussed in the above comments.<BR/><BR/>So I find myself in a bind when considering purchasing nice components created internationally. Although I'm resistant at all to adopting "voting with my dollar" as a political strategy, I still find myself somehow lured in by the strategy's guilt-alleviation properties. So when I think about the things VO is making, I find luxury parts. They are, by and large, status-oriented, albeit functional and beautiful, parts. Before I get lynched, let me say that I appreciate and support what VO does in producing beautiful, lasting parts. But I also recognize that much of my attraction to VO originates in aesthetic, not functional, concerns. I am forced to Iook at the items VO makes, and ask myself whether a) those items already exist on the market in an inexpensive form (cable hangers, pedals, handlebars, chainguards); b) whether, if those items were high-cost because of being US-made, I could do without them. The answers to these questions to lead me to one conclusion: to the extent that these items already exist (and are already sold at a price point accessible to those who can't afford fancy stuff), I am paying for luxury. And to the extent that I'm paying for luxury, I think that I probably oughtn't have the option to buy it in any way but the most sustainable (politically, economically, environmentally) possible. When do we have enough? Why should we have a right to nice stuff at a low price point? If I can't afford to have it made here, do I really need it? These are the murky waters which I am - and I hope others are - still navigating.<BR/><BR/>And make no mistake, I'm no rich elitist: I make less than $10,000 per year. I still manage to buy some nice stuff for myself, but can't buy the nicest of everything. Sometimes the less expensive (or used) stuff works as well as the high-polish stuff. It may not look as nice, but it works. And I know that most of it comes from Asia, but the argument for buying $10 Taiwanese pedals instead of $30 Taiwanese pedals seems stronger to me than the one for buying $30 Taiwanese pedals instead of $60 American pedals, especially when the difference between them is largely cosmetic.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being presumptuous, I hope that VO fosters, on the scale that it fosters the Taiwanese industry, the domestic component industry. As that industry grows, domestically made, high-quality stuff will become less expensive and more accessible to all.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the length of this comment, but I believe this to be an important and provocative issue worth taking some time to talk and read about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-44557398918601693432007-12-23T15:31:00.000-05:002007-12-23T15:31:00.000-05:00I tend to agree with the overall sentiment here, w...I tend to agree with the overall sentiment here, which is that I'm more than a little uncomfortable propping up a regime that shows so little regard for the rights of its workers and the state of its environment. <BR/><BR/>That said, everyone I know who actually AVOIDS buying Chinese-made products does so for similar reasons. They're reasonable, idealistic people who don't drive excessively, try to buy locally, and vote progressive tickets. It's not some attack on China or its people -- simply a recognition that WE are responsible for the demand half of the equation that keeps Chinese prices so low, and helps wreak such incredible havoc on the air and water and working class.<BR/><BR/>The people I hear bashing China and chanting "USA! USA!" are the ones who shop at Wal-mart and buy quantity over quality... I sure don't see "nationalists" organizing a boycott of Chinese goods. It seems like it's bike-commuter, shop-locally-with-reusable-bags-in-the-Xtracycle types who actually refrain from buying those items.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06070254776910077461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-43566306573939352882007-12-22T23:27:00.000-05:002007-12-22T23:27:00.000-05:00oh ...except now i read more ...and i want to say ...oh ...except now i read more ...and i want to say that you may be misguided about your thoughts on cuba...(tal vez, no puedo saber lo que tienes ni piensas ...¿cuidad, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39672734413068528132007-12-22T23:22:00.000-05:002007-12-22T23:22:00.000-05:00your anti-nationalism and comments about racism ha...your anti-nationalism and comments about racism have gained my trust. i will take them at face value and not consider them an apology.<BR/><BR/>although i just spent my bike budget with peter white (and LBSs) for the next few months, i will first visit velo orange after reading these heartfelt comments.<BR/><BR/>-feliz navidad y que tengas un año de paz<BR/>-bien dit et bien comprisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32105860398865627912007-12-22T15:33:00.000-05:002007-12-22T15:33:00.000-05:00While mainland Chinese manufacturing labor may be ...While mainland Chinese manufacturing labor may be paid pennies, relatively, their cost of living is similarly low. Such jobs at any rate appear to be attractive alternatives to peasant life. Like it or not, the US as a developed nation has a high-wage, high-price, high-cost, high-tax market economy. But other similar nations have universal health care, giving their small and medium businesses a leg up.<BR/><BR/>"On the other hand we engaged the totalitarian regime in South Korea and it became a wealthy and democratic country."<BR/><BR/>The southern half of Korea went straight from Japanese colony to US client state at the end of WWII. Most totalitarian tendencies of the South Korean government are pro-US in nature.<BR/><BR/>It's loyalty to the Wall Street regime has shielded South Korea (so far) from media-driven fear and loathing episodes like the one against Japan in the 80s or the current one against mainland China. Not that China can't be criticized, but the current atmosphere reeks of hypocrisy and a desperate attempt to redirect the rising anger of the populace towards an external (or newly arriving) "other".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-38594963244203614622007-12-22T14:22:00.000-05:002007-12-22T14:22:00.000-05:00Sorry, I disagree strenuously: how a persons spend...Sorry, I disagree strenuously: how a persons spends the time they have in life, once they have "enough" to live, has little to do with quantity. Quality, my friends, not quantity! Wisdom? The further you go, the less you take with you. ;-) Of course, I'm one to talk...Bill Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09553048532545798773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-15895201781354539642007-12-22T14:01:00.000-05:002007-12-22T14:01:00.000-05:00As a final comment on this topic, which BTW I have...As a final comment on this topic, which BTW I have enjoyed reading very much, I'd ask:<BR/>If Economists, Writers, and Educators are so smart, what are they doing commenting on these things instead of making a fortune and then retiring to spend the rest of their days commenting.<BR/>I have a theory. If a person is involved in a manufacturing, or service, and to a lesser extent retail business and is not holding the checkbook and ultimate responsibility for that business-they don't know jack.<BR/>Those folks are the least qualified (and you can throw clergy in there as well) to comment on anything. You can't "take a class" on something and know very much about it. Just look at the classroom scene in the classic film, "Back to School". Funny, but oh so true.<BR/>Merry X-mas my two-wheeled brethren!!z-manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09572343329703287829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-74783581802820872032007-12-22T12:42:00.000-05:002007-12-22T12:42:00.000-05:00Chris, I look forward to the new imported frames v...Chris, <BR/><BR/>I look forward to the new imported frames very much. In my imagination, both will be composed of equal parts practicality, beauty, and value, which is exactly the sort of balance that will make them irresistable to many knowledgable buyers, regardless of any pre-existing notions of what this or that country represents. I hope to see close-ups of the lugwork and the welding. Even such a little product like a nice silver seatpost at an attractive price--that is no small feat. Keep em coming.<BR/><BR/>thanks for everything,<BR/><BR/>michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-26202856542534132942007-12-22T11:49:00.000-05:002007-12-22T11:49:00.000-05:00Anon, I just deleted you comment because you obvio...Anon, I just deleted you comment because you obviously did not read the post.<BR/><BR/>I believe the way to change a country's behavior is to engage and encourage those businesses that are doing things the right way. There are good honest business people who treat their employees well and care for the environment in every country. To write-off an entire nation because some of their businesses don't apply the human rights practices or environmental standards that we would like is wrongheaded. And it's only logical to wonder if it's driven by xenophobia or nationalism or even racism. I'm not saying that our customers share these motives, but the media's, and certain politician's, portrayal of these issues certainly seem to be.<BR/><BR/>As I said in the post, our 40 year boycott of Cuba seems to have helped keep 11 million humans poor while only strengthening Castro's resolve. On the other hand we engaged the totalitarian regime in South Korea and it became a wealthy and democratic country.<BR/><BR/>The reality is that we sell very few products made in China.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-57872846537203715522007-12-22T10:59:00.000-05:002007-12-22T10:59:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49374218407866077572007-12-22T09:20:00.000-05:002007-12-22T09:20:00.000-05:00Interesting discussion. I just finished watching a...Interesting discussion. I just finished watching a DVD (which I highly recommend) by economist Joe Stiglitz:<BR/><BR/>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/film/reviews/47077/where-is-the-world-going-mr-stiglitz/<BR/><BR/>I have many thoughts about this topic, but if forced to limit myself to one observation it would be this: Americans sell out for the quick buck and we do it each and every time. Not all of us mind you, but certainly enough of us to form a sizable majority. This will bite us in the tukus, but soon. I won't elaborate any further here.<BR/><BR/>Chris, I applaud you for taking a stance. I think your conclusions as to why people don't want to buy Chinese goods are a bit simplistic though. Yeah, some are just reactionaries, or even racist, but I bet most of your customers don't fall into those categories. <BR/><BR/>Happy Holidays to allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-11600293041324868492007-12-22T02:46:00.000-05:002007-12-22T02:46:00.000-05:00Wow ... this seems to be a hot button issue amongs...Wow ... this seems to be a hot button issue amongst us cyclists. And that's a good thing. International trade and world policies have never been more important and more critical towards the peaceful and economic co-existence for all this planet. We have everything here from environmental concerns to the funding of governments who abuse human rights and and are gaining international power at an alarming rate.<BR/><BR/>As consumers we must assert our purchasing power because in the end that may be the only power we have to bring about change against inhumane working conditions and human rights violations and important environmental policies. To suggest this is based upon nationalist or racist beliefs is simply absurd. We fear the Walmart type of capitalism for good reason. When profit is the only motivation for business and capitalistic enterprise we as a nation and a world economy will face all types of problems. Desiring a strong national manufacturing and economic base may in some eyes be nationalistic or racist but in reality it might just be necessary for the survival of the economic health of this country. <BR/><BR/>Right now Europeans enjoy the highest standards of living in terms of working conditions, health care, and other factors that determine standards of living. At one time it was the United States. But powerful international corporations have too much influence over our national policy. Denying that fact is simply denying the politics of Washington DC and the lobbyist money that fuels the direction our government has been moving for the last several years.<BR/><BR/>We are now involved in a war that will cost us a trillion dollars and in the end will weaken our position in the world. And it was apparent from the get go that war would not have been fought for it not been for our reliance on Mid-Eastern oil. <BR/><BR/>Getting back to the quality of bicycle parts on an international scale there is no doubt that the best products come from countries that have the best working conditions and thus high standards of living. Quality simply is a by product of those conditions that bring out the best in human endeavors ... not the worst.<BR/><BR/>We do have good examples of quality bicycle parts being manufactured in this country. Some of those are White Industries, Paul Components, Chris King and Thompson. It would be great to see more of these type of domestic manufacturers. And yes European companies such as Brooks, TA, and Campagnolo still produce products that will last a lifetime. <BR/><BR/>Japan's Shimano makes a host of high quality components. And there are of course other Asian companies producing some quality. But outside of Japan most Asian companies are not doing much to bring us high quality components or to bring about a higher standard of living for the workers in their plants. Maybe over time things will change. But they won't change in a positive way if we don't demand quality and and the other human and environmental concerns.I think most of the cyclists who post on this blog feel very much the same way as I do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com