tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post6673836966227631339..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Porteur Racks and Offshore BagsVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-55852350130392168642010-01-09T14:19:37.367-05:002010-01-09T14:19:37.367-05:00Hi Greg again.
I forgot to mention that I went on ...Hi Greg again.<br />I forgot to mention that I went on a mission to buy the porteur rack here in toronto. It would work so well on my 73 raleigh competition with velo orange's monmartre handle bar. the rise of the bars and the second level of the porteur creates perfect lines on my bike.<br />But it was $220 cdn?! far too expensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49583425390695094122010-01-09T14:13:50.562-05:002010-01-09T14:13:50.562-05:00Hi Greg Hefford here:
I have a pair of red wing b...Hi Greg Hefford here:<br /><br />I have a pair of red wing boots that I always wear cycling. I tried to buy another pair and was informed me that they were made in china and therefore not as high in quality as they used to be.<br /><br />There is obviously a pervasive view that "made in china" is a stamp of low quality and damn those cheap ass chinese.<br /><br />All I can think is- doesn't red wing shoes or any other company, take responsibility for ensuring that the degree of quality they want associated with their product is upheld? surely a parent company creates guidelines and standards that they pay for in manufacturing..<br /><br />Perhaps some companies are letting shit roll downhill in their attempt to save money / survive. Perhaps they don't mind letting the public blame another country and people rather than taking it themselves?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-74282708191923840242008-12-11T22:14:00.000-05:002008-12-11T22:14:00.000-05:00Tom's "all the acrimony about Chinese products wer...Tom's "all the acrimony about Chinese products were also thrown at Japanese products for years..." is rather fallacious. China's economy is a bizarre stew of ultra-capitalism and an authoritarian regime hellbent on breaking every rule of decency for another scrap of the almighty dollar/yuan. People don't want to buy Chinese not b/c they're inherently Asian but b/c their gov't has such a rotten reputation. Back in the day, Japanese products were scandalized b/c their gov't had previously gone to war with ours, not because they treated their workers, their product or their environment so poorly.<BR/><BR/>As for VO, more power to you for filling a valuable niche, but best do it as cleanly as possible. Otherwise you're another Pacific/GT/Giant/etc.LvilleTexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733840950451530910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-76477771739429112362008-12-07T13:11:00.000-05:002008-12-07T13:11:00.000-05:00I can always tell when I have been spending too mu...I can always tell when I have been spending too much time reading the various bike lists on the web. I've been following the silliness about the VO rack in various places, and for what it's worth, I am sure the VO porter rack is the "proper" design. *Sniff.*<BR/><BR/>Ask any reasonably competent carpenter about cantilevering a deck on the side of a house, and you will get an intelligent discussion of the same physics involved here. The VO rack looks way better than the ones with the struts all the way out to the sides. I figure I'll eventually buy a VO porteur rack, but would not consider one of the other contraptions, even if it came on a custom frame.Some Guy on the Innernetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13374415771586647422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-84025328163894891782008-12-07T00:32:00.000-05:002008-12-07T00:32:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16636636314147111192008-12-05T11:18:00.000-05:002008-12-05T11:18:00.000-05:00erik: I just wrote out a beautiful piece, discussi...erik: <BR/>I just wrote out a beautiful piece, discussing your points, surly, working conditions, etc. Blogger hiccuped and it's lost. <BR/><BR/>Once my disappointment subsides, I'll try to remember what I wrote. <BR/><BR/>best, <BR/><BR/>tomTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-24211736512489758772008-12-05T10:42:00.000-05:002008-12-05T10:42:00.000-05:00Anon, I am worried about that too, but our busines...Anon, I am worried about that too, but our business continues to grow, even over these past few weeks.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-30013535423500116022008-12-05T10:15:00.000-05:002008-12-05T10:15:00.000-05:00You know, this whole discussion may be rendered mo...You know, this whole discussion may be rendered moot, with 533,000 people losing their jobs in November and all. Who's going to have enough money, or even think about buying luxury cycling goods at this time? CK's customer base may be limited to the very wealthy for some time to come...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-8850718515937956402008-12-05T01:22:00.000-05:002008-12-05T01:22:00.000-05:00For what it's worth, I have been inside factories ...For what it's worth, I have been inside factories in central america--all of which were atrocious. Usually visiting such places is near impossible due to tight restrictions in order to prevent bad press, but over the course of several weeks in El Salvador i was able to access two clothing plants.<BR/><BR/>I was not a fan. That, and especially the stories I have witnessed in the lives of the workers engaged in these forms of production, haunt me.<BR/><BR/>My original post never stated you source from China, however I am worried most by the practices which go entirely unregulated in countries such as those (El Salvador at least has nominal protections that are easily circumvented--I can't imagine what occurs when the run for the bottom dollar takes precendence).<BR/><BR/>I would whole-heartedly commend and endorse anything you did as a company to audit your factories. I know Surly did something of this a while back with their facilities in Taiwan, and such efforts do make a big difference--if only in setting a precedent for the importance of respecting those who do not necessarily have a voice in the process of production.<BR/><BR/>Best Regards,erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128941098449141122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75151790491687325422008-12-04T21:34:00.000-05:002008-12-04T21:34:00.000-05:00there are a lot of big words here.there are a lot of big words here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75957457225350175332008-12-04T19:18:00.000-05:002008-12-04T19:18:00.000-05:00Johnson, it should be obvious from context that To...Johnson, it should be obvious from context that Tom at 16:38 is replying directly to Erik at 14:58.Ian Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14721391514711042385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-57900346637114824782008-12-04T19:06:00.000-05:002008-12-04T19:06:00.000-05:00who are you asking re: the academic exercise? if ...who are you asking re: the academic exercise? if we only participate in pragmatic ie non-hypothetic retoric, we are stuck without vision and experimentation...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51330961658450887412008-12-04T16:38:00.000-05:002008-12-04T16:38:00.000-05:00After reading the Patagonia Social Corporate Respo...After reading the Patagonia Social Corporate Responsibility white paper, ( http://www.patagonia.com/pdf/en_US/social_response2.pdf ). I am confident that all of our suppliers- including our domestic US sources- are in compliance with that document. <BR/><BR/>Have you stepped foot inside a manufacturing facility here or outside of the US? Or is this just an academic exercise for you? <BR/>The Taiwanese have it better than we do in Made-in-the USA: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Taiwan-WORKING-CONDITIONS.html <BR/><BR/>Although I may question your motives, I do take your demands seriously. <BR/><BR/>And to restate what has been stated over and over again, we do not source product from China, but we are not unreceptive to the idea in principle.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-87515629327000752612008-12-04T15:16:00.000-05:002008-12-04T15:16:00.000-05:00Eric, These products are NOT made China. Didn't yo...Eric, These products are NOT made China. Didn't you read the post and comments?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-53833188295364981882008-12-04T14:58:00.000-05:002008-12-04T14:58:00.000-05:00I want a straight and thorough answer from VO rega...I want a straight and thorough answer from VO regarding worker conditions in the factories that produce their goods.<BR/><BR/>I am frankly very disturbed that any discussion of wages paid, sweat shop conditions, and workers rights (all of which are most often appaling in China) was left out of the commentary.<BR/><BR/>Are such concerns simply not on the radar for this company?<BR/><BR/>It's very problematic.erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128941098449141122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-46350810047176060412008-12-04T10:41:00.000-05:002008-12-04T10:41:00.000-05:00Man, I bet there aren't many bike shops out there ...Man, I bet there aren't many bike shops out there where you inquire about a rack and a handlebar bag and end up in a lively discussion about world politics, socio-economic issues, ethics, etc.<BR/><BR/>This may be...the most interesting bike shop in the world. I don't drink much beer when I ride, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis XX. Stay thirsty, my friends!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-4812208200860598642008-12-03T18:36:00.000-05:002008-12-03T18:36:00.000-05:00according to the excellent book 'multitude' by har...according to the excellent book 'multitude' by hardt and negri, every action against the supranation economic empire that surrounds us is a strike against the heart of said empire. the empire is like an ether, a shapeless entity that is everywhere at once. chosing to opt out of this entity or act actively against it serves the same end: the weakening of empire. empire of course is in the interest of a strengthened empire. the multitude, ie you and me, do not factor in except as nessesary cogs that need to be oiled and functional, but not nessesarily happy. woah, where am i going with this? <BR/><BR/>geez, just look it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16795911772191559162008-12-03T18:09:00.000-05:002008-12-03T18:09:00.000-05:00Just throwing my hat in the ring as another person...Just throwing my hat in the ring as another person unwilling to support China-made goods.<BR/><BR/>1.) Make it<BR/>2.) Find it used<BR/>3.) Fint it union<BR/>4.) Find it local<BR/>5.) Find it domestic<BR/>6.) Find it first-world<BR/>7.) Get it from China/Forget about it/See #1.<BR/><BR/>In America, you vote with your dollars. Every. Single. Time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-80404267721087259322008-12-03T17:53:00.000-05:002008-12-03T17:53:00.000-05:00"Since you apparently believe that things like ind..."Since you apparently believe that things like individual liberty, transparent government and human rights can be summed up as 'warm fuzzies' from a 'socially-approved democracy', this is probably going to be one of those "agree to disagree" situations, since I personally think those are pretty important things even if the people in question live halfway around the world."<BR/><BR/>hi. Once again I find your position unreponsive to any rational instrument at my disposal. (Please feel free to see humor in my expressions.) When I used the term "warm fuzzies" that was a slightly mocking term directed at your preference for certain economies. Surely there are problematic situations, but they often have little to do with national borders, a point that has been made above. Some might see America as a safe democracy, a "good" place to spend your cycling dollar; the quality and integrity of bikes made here (especially brands like Cannondale and Merlin) is quite well respected in Europe, for instance, where Asian-sourced bikes rule, just as they do here. (Those brands probably have more cachet in Europe than here.) But to someone else, buying American might mean something entirely different, like supporting the world's greatest exporter of war, for instance. Or the world's most wasteful energy sinkhole. Which stance is correct? <BR/><BR/>I would not choose to be oblivous to the moral or political consequences of consumerism. However, it's not as simple as some posters here make it out to be, and an ambitious company with an international vision, like VO, is probably going to challenge sensibilities in this market. If a new or newish corner can be developed while maintaining one's own brand integrity, if products that make sense to actual cyclists and help get a few cars off the streets can be brought out that not only attract lifer cyclists, but get made and bought in quantities--that still might not justify the enterprise to everyone, but it might help to be pragmatic about it.<BR/><BR/>michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-19703250092577030442008-12-03T17:39:00.000-05:002008-12-03T17:39:00.000-05:00It seems to me that the poor folks in China who ma...It seems to me that the poor folks in China who make so little still deserve to earn a living. I don't mind giving them a few bucks. Heck, they need it more than American workers do. We drive big SUVs to union meetings. Most of them walk and risk arrest for even going.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-29369017335144779772008-12-03T13:22:00.000-05:002008-12-03T13:22:00.000-05:00its not about the quality of the product, but who ...its not about the quality of the product, but who makes it and the wage they are being paid, which is not to imply you are sourcing sweat labor of any kind however this direction of thought is completely unacknowledged in your post. <BR/><BR/>For example I cannot afford to buy your porteur rack, that is a luxury though and I would rather wait to the point that I can afford it then expect you to source it somewhere else where people may not be getting paid what they are worth.<BR/><BR/>-GSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-33961143891697190672008-12-03T11:13:00.000-05:002008-12-03T11:13:00.000-05:00Michael,"are you saying that when you buy Chinese,...Michael,<BR/><I>"are you saying that when you buy Chinese, it's always because you have to? Can you not find an antique straight razor forged of English steel, which you can strop on a good English hide?"</I><BR/><BR/>There are many, many products where you cannot find a non-Chinese made example easily. If there is a non-Chinese alternative, I will generally choose that. The issue here is choice - there are few areas where you actually have the ability to choose a product made in a way that matches your ethics, and I would like to keep these options open rather than having everything based on the cheapest production costs available. <BR/><BR/><I>"The second suppostion here is equally curious to me. Ok, so we hear you, that you would rather blow all your excess cash on a nice socially-approved democracy. So what would be wrong with simply doing what you believe, rather than argue over somebody else's business practices. "</I><BR/><BR/>Since you apparently believe that things like individual liberty, transparent government and human rights can be summed up as 'warm fuzzies' from a 'socially-approved democracy', this is probably going to be one of those "agree to disagree" situations, since I personally think those are pretty important things even if the people in question live halfway around the world. However, I don't see how I'm arguing over VO or anyone's business practices. I like how VO (and Riv, and a number of the places I regularly order from) makes clear the country of origin of their products, which allows me to choose to buy things that match my personal priorities. I just like having choices, and would like to continue to have choices in the future. <BR/><BR/>Sorry for being 'sanctimonious' but I've always thought the purpose of comment pages was to, well, comment.dmghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14367528270293851784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-35126540143611642102008-12-03T10:36:00.000-05:002008-12-03T10:36:00.000-05:00personally, i think that companies interested in h...personally, i think that companies interested in human and environmental rights should personally investigate working conditions, factories, wages, environmental impacts. i know patagonia does this, to the extent that it has joined and participates in the fair labor association which conducts independant auditing of factory conditions. if you cant go yourself, perhaps having someone else check it out is the next best thing. <BR/><BR/>check out the lengthy PDF by googling 'patagona social responsability PDF.' they talk about pit falls and preventatives steps, amongst other things. <BR/><BR/>it seems like there are quite a few ways to look into monitoring things from afar. i'm not saying do any or all, that is your choice. i am saying the resources to check them out are readily availible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-35277312738465678542008-12-03T08:27:00.000-05:002008-12-03T08:27:00.000-05:00all the acrimony about Chinese products were also ...all the acrimony about Chinese products were also thrown at Japanese products for years. Now anything made in Japan is perfectly acceptable. Then it was Taiwans turn. <BR/>What would make it acceptable? what do you want to see in the way of audits?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-12837581457445594422008-12-02T22:10:00.000-05:002008-12-02T22:10:00.000-05:00"If I need to get a razor or an appliance or whate..."If I need to get a razor or an appliance or whatever, I may need to buy something made in China; I accept that comes with being part of the global marketplace. However, I would rather pay more for something made in a democracy than have my recreational purchasing be subject to the same tradeoffs as my other purchases. "<BR/><BR/>ok. so here are some interesting ideas, which I unfortunately don't follow. The first is the necessity/recreational purchases. are you saying that when you buy Chinese, it's always because you have to? Can you not find an antique straight razor forged of English steel, which you can strop on a good English hide? In what way do you find it more moral to make certain that your nonessential luxury items are produced in a country that gives you the warm fuzzies? The second suppostion here is equally curious to me. Ok, so we hear you, that you would rather blow all your excess cash on a nice socially-approved democracy. So what would be wrong with simply doing what you believe, rather than argue over somebody else's business practices. Hey, is anyone forcing you to buy cartridge pedals from Taiwan? Is anyone here suggesting you should be barred from riding on morally superior Japanese ball bearings? I don't think so. Unfortunately your post is only about the hundredth similar sanctimonious declaration. Hey, why not just spend your money the way you feel is correct and let others do the same--any problem with that?<BR/><BR/>here's a signature: <BR/>Michael WhiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com