tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post5454881787056603336..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Toe Clip Overlap TricksVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-57466463069552122952022-08-18T04:07:44.026-04:002022-08-18T04:07:44.026-04:00Solved !
Bolt on a 10mm or 20mm block to the inne...Solved ! <br />Bolt on a 10mm or 20mm block to the inner front plate of your pedals and bolt your toe clip to the back of the block. Most people make the mistake of attaching the toe clips to the outer side of the pedal plates usually where the reflector would be. Make sure the block is level with the pedal plate as this will improve comfort for the ball of your foot. <br /><br />This will bring the toe clip further back away from the front wheel. You can also bolt a block (aluminium or plastic) on to the rear outer plate of the pedals making sure that the block is level with the top of the pedal plate improving foot comfort. <br /><br />You might need to buy longer bolts. <br /><br />You could also use washers if you’re not too good at drilling holes into an aluminium / plastic block. <br /><br />Other options would be to replace your crank set with one that has shorter crank arms from say; 185mm to 165mm in length or if your toe clips are hitting your tyre you could always change from say; 700c x 28 to 700c x 22 tyres. <br /><br />Anyhow, it worked for me. Thanks for reading. <br />CRHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09087028088378166414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-12306482963268024732015-12-17T19:17:38.538-05:002015-12-17T19:17:38.538-05:00I'm 5'6 1/2 and have been riding steel bik...I'm 5'6 1/2 and have been riding steel bikes with TCO. Was never an issue till they cemented these real steep roads. Now prefer riding my aluminum bike that doesn't have TCO.restyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195406920764984114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-69194658943695208652009-09-14T22:39:21.854-04:002009-09-14T22:39:21.854-04:00I would agree that TCO is something that should be...I would agree that TCO is something that should be minimized when designing most 'non-racing' frames, but let's remember that you can't always guarantee that it won't occur somewhere 'down the road' in the life of the frameset. If someone puts 185 mm cranks, XL toeclips spaced forwards with extra washers, 35 mm 700C (or even wide 27-inch) tires, and 50 mm fenders on a medium-to-large sized old racing bike, that might create substantial TCO!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-57021355870157997052009-09-13T03:08:14.193-04:002009-09-13T03:08:14.193-04:00My new Waterford commuter frame with TCO is danger...My new Waterford commuter frame with TCO is dangerous to track stand or maneuver in traffic. For urban commuters, TCO is not the equivalent of helmet hair!<br /><br />Unless a frame is intended for racing or for small riders, builders are obligated to provide pedal clearance or give the buyer fair warning. I'm 5'9" and my other bikes offer adequate pedal clearance.<br /><br />The Waterford does not meet the reasonable Consumer Product clearance from the pedal to either the fender or even the tire:<br /><br /><i>16 C.F.R. Part 1512<br />(4) Bicycles without toe clips must have pedals that are at least 3 ½ inches from the front tire or<br />fender when the front tire is turned in any direction</i> [measured from pedal center].Robert Raburnhttp://www.ebbc.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-74710326401935894342009-09-12T23:46:25.303-04:002009-09-12T23:46:25.303-04:00I'm with those who say minimal tco is only an ...I'm with those who say minimal tco is only an issue fixed, otherwise coast. I do brush my fenders on my fendered fixed bad weather bike, but only went down once: stupid Planet Bike fenders' struts extend past the fenders and caught on my winter neoprene shoe covers. I bent those strut ends downwards and have been fine since.<br /><br />On the other hand, as a small footed, 6'1" on a 59cm frame, I'm only ever going to have the issue on my fendered bike with track geometry. Short people with big feet will want smaller wheels and relaxed geometry.jamesmallonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-73575513925349852962009-09-12T22:46:50.377-04:002009-09-12T22:46:50.377-04:00I usually ride a size 52 frame, and on my fixed ge...I usually ride a size 52 frame, and on my fixed gear 700c road bike I have deal with pretty major toe clip overlap with the fenders AND the tire. Even though its fixed and hard to time slow speed turns sometime with the overlap, the overall frame handles great. It has a low trail but high headtube angle, and I love the responsive steering.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07643905394003822741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51960992427827974072009-09-12T15:38:19.263-04:002009-09-12T15:38:19.263-04:00I know stores in Philly and San Francisco where I ...I know stores in Philly and San Francisco where I can walk out with 650b tires any day of the week.J ustin.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14381051517089463268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47986543842602134632009-09-11T12:41:15.316-04:002009-09-11T12:41:15.316-04:00A Tire Triptych
À-propos les Pneus Vélos: le Meil...A Tire Triptych<br /><br />À-propos les Pneus Vélos: le Meilleur, le Moins Cher<br /><br />"No really superb 26" road tires"? I'll have to defer Chris' judgment in this matter. "Superb" isn't a word that trips easily off my tongue. But "competent" is, and my 26" Marathon Cross tires are that and more, both on and off the asphalt. I can spin along at 19-22 mph on the valley flats (provided that the headwinds don't rise much above Force 3, that is), negotiate dirt forest tracks and jeep trails with reasonable aplomb, and ride over broken beer bottles without fear of flatting. That'll do me. I don't ask more of any tire. <br /><br />The Crosses are NOT good on ice, of course (but I have studded tires for winter riding). And they have one other shortcoming: They're noisy, emitting a constant, harsh buzz when ridden at speed on hard-surfaced roads. I chased down a couple of triathletes-in-training last weekend. (They passed my wife and me as we were dawdling up the backside of White Hill. I couldn't resist rising to the bait.) When I caught them up after a short but spirited pursuit, my buzzing tires announced my approach, impelling the rearguard rider to shout a warning to his companion to the effect that they were about to be run down by a logging truck. Only then did he trouble to look over his shoulder -- real roadies disdain mirrors, I guess -- and saw, not a careering logging truck hellbent on destruction, but a lone cyclist on a steel bike, keeping pace with him at a distance of some thirty feet. (My wife was perhaps a quarter mile farther back. She has more sense than to give chase to other cyclists. Someday I'll learn.)<br /><br />Come to think of it, though, "buzzing" is too mild an epithet to describe these otherwise competent tires' acoustic signature. "Grating" -- now that's the word. Marathon Cross tires undoubtedly grate on sensitive ears when ridden on hard surfaces, though the noise is never loud enough to mask the roar of honest-to-god logging trucks. Or churring red squirrels, for that matter. Is the noise annoying? Yes. Sometimes. But it's a mighty small price to pay for these tires' many other virtues.<br /><br /><br />When Less Is More<br /><br />An anonymous writer dismisses the idea of "minimal toe clip overlap," claiming that "If you have [it], you have it." That's indeed succinct, not to say pithy. Unfortunately, it is also somewhat misleading. My working definition of "minimal toe-clip overlap" is, appropriately, minimalist: If the overlap is so small that a plastic-fender-encumbered wheel can swing through its arc without the fender contacting the tire and bringing the rider crashing down, the overlap is indeed minimal. Otherwise not.<br /><br />I've experienced both types of overlap -- minimal and the other kind. There IS a difference, believe me. And it's painfully obvious.<br /><br /><br />Vive la Femme!<br /><br />Diana is right. Despite my occasional misadventures on bikes exhibiting the wrong sort of toe-clip overlap -- that's the non-minimalist kind, of course -- I'm inclined to agree that this concern ranks rather low on the scale of cyclist's worries. There are dogs in the world, after all. And logging trucks. Not to mention saddle sores. One copes. Or one doesn't. In that case, one buys a golf cart and a season pass to Disney World.Cyclopsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-35877860366247202672009-09-11T10:37:05.107-04:002009-09-11T10:37:05.107-04:00I don't know if I count as riding lots, about ...I don't know if I count as riding lots, about 3000 miles average for the last 35 years, or if I have good, indifferent or poor handling skills, but I don't like TCO. For the vast majority of the time it is not an issue, my obviously meagre bike handling skills are good enough to mitigate any problem. However, on occasion I do find myself in a position where I have to pedal through the TCO window of opportunity. On my race geaometry bike it is a bit of a faff. On my fixie and on my old tandem it is down right dangerous. On my newer tandem (I was going to saw 'new' until I reasiles it was 16 years old!) not having TCO is one less thing to worry about.<br /><br />If you can build a bike without TCO and with the required handling and other design features, why do it?Tim Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03277034044977018254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-19168525835713030032009-09-11T09:29:07.045-04:002009-09-11T09:29:07.045-04:00Anon 9/10 7:59:
Complaining something is availabl...Anon 9/10 7:59:<br /><br />Complaining something is available only over the internet in 2009 is just a little anachronistic, wouldn't you say?<br /><br />Moreover, 650b tires and rims are available at bike shops in such U.S. metropolitan areas as NYC, Boston, Chicago, Portland, Seattle, SF Bay area, LA, and, of course from Velo-Orange in bustling Annapolis, MD.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-19082436723811966652009-09-11T09:25:27.030-04:002009-09-11T09:25:27.030-04:00I've always managed to compensate for it when ...I've always managed to compensate for it when needed with crank position relative to front wheel position. It's more of an issue when doing slow maneuvers with a fixed-gear, but still not a deal breaker. I'd rather have a more comfortable, responsive bike for 99% of the riding, and deal with a little TCO.kGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14572371287751503718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-28722541879098905312009-09-11T09:12:59.195-04:002009-09-11T09:12:59.195-04:00anon 9/10/09 7:59 PM said:
"First, as far as...anon 9/10/09 7:59 PM said:<br /><br />"First, as far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as "minimal toe clip overlap". If you have TCO, you have it, no matter how minimal it is. It's like being a little bit pregnant."<br /><br />Sorry, but that is simply not true. With minimal TCO you will simply brush the tire or fender lightly. If TCO is more severe, the tire may not make it past your foot. So yeah, there are degrees of TCO.patates friteshttp://www.patates.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16086402488778721142009-09-11T08:08:46.996-04:002009-09-11T08:08:46.996-04:00I rank TCO right up there with helmet hair -- it j...I rank TCO right up there with helmet hair -- it just ain't important. You learn to cope. How? Ride lots. (Didn't some famous cycilst say that once?) That'll take care of the paranoia over TCO.Diananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49906014475217524162009-09-10T19:59:10.300-04:002009-09-10T19:59:10.300-04:00I have a couple of points made that I want to resp...I have a couple of points made that I want to respond to.<br /><br />First, as far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as "minimal toe clip overlap". If you have TCO, you have it, no matter how minimal it is. It's like being a little bit pregnant.<br /><br />While I have nothing against 650B as such, outside of the internet, it's an oddball, virtually unavailable tire size. Nobody has that, even in a large metropolitan city. I don't want to be dependent on ordering things via internet. I don't even have a credit card. I want to be able to walk to an LBS and buy a couple of tires. But leaving even that aside, if you have TCO with an unfendered 700c wheel, you probably are still going to have it with a fendered 650B wheel... so, problem not solved. You might even still have it without the fender, if you take advantage of the puffier 650B tire widths. It's not too different with 26 inch wheels either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-45670445604498614042009-09-10T19:38:00.744-04:002009-09-10T19:38:00.744-04:00Chris said:
"Smaller wheels on small frames i...Chris said:<br />"Smaller wheels on small frames is a good compromise, but it limits tire selection. There are no really superb 26" road tires that I'm aware of. Of course 650b is better."<br /><br />Ablejack says:<br />How about Schwalbe Marathon Supreme? They come in 26" but sadly not 650b.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56365180843247369342009-09-10T16:34:12.167-04:002009-09-10T16:34:12.167-04:00I've never noticed it. What I have noticed is...I've never noticed it. What I have noticed is HKO (handlebar knee overlap) at slow speeds with Promenade bars.<br /><br />The only way I can see TCO being a problem, really, is with a fixed gear. Everyone else can just coast for a sec, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-46743343822926937702009-09-10T15:01:10.819-04:002009-09-10T15:01:10.819-04:00Ah yes, the "R-Clip"; that makes sense.
...Ah yes, the "R-Clip"; that makes sense.<br />Now, if one could modify an R-clip to work with Berthoud style stay and use a flat head bolt, we'd have a pretty low profile mount, n'est pas?RMHampelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13583240793927828726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-76350021157577423322009-09-10T14:33:14.056-04:002009-09-10T14:33:14.056-04:00Dear Chris,
Without fenders TCO doesn't seem ...Dear Chris,<br /><br />Without fenders TCO doesn't seem to be a big deal. <br /><br />Minor TCO with fenders is annoying in a cyclotouring bike, but not a danger. <br /><br />Larger amounts of TCO with fenders(more than a centimeter or so) can be difficult in unplanned maneuvers, no matter how skilled or experienced the rider. The standard eyebolt makes it worse, as it provides a sharp edge to catch one's shoe. It is a bad idea, and worth making adjustments to a geometry (in my opinion) in order to avoid it. Thankfully, if one has appropriately designed the bike to begin with, these adjustments are small and won't have much effect on the function of the machine (like adding 5mm to the top tube--we're not talking about gross mismatches between required top tube length and wheel size, like a 47cm bike with 700C wheels and fenders).<br /><br />@CM, Computing TCO isn't hard at centerline. Start with a front center calculation (fun with pythagoras, but not hard if you've got the geometry specs), subtract off the length of the crank, the projection of the shoe/toe clip forward of the pedal centerline, the outer radius of the wheel, the clearance from wheel to fender, and the depth of the fender mounting hardware. You can measure all of these items. <br /><br />Calculating TCO potential at the off-centerline location of the foot is a bit harder, as the wheel sweeps out an arc and therefore provides additional clearance (and the fork rake complicates matters), but still a spreadsheet calculation if you know the tread width of your bike. In practice, it is around a centimeter of additional clearance.<br /><br />In General, 615-620mm gets average size folks out of the woods on 700C bikes with 28mm tires, and 610-615mm on 650B machines. Big feet and "arch cleat" placement will require additional front center.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Will<br /><br />William M. deRossetWMdeRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15531125254328045995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-58643453744379912009-09-10T14:20:35.235-04:002009-09-10T14:20:35.235-04:00The traditional French-style stays (like VO's ...The traditional French-style stays (like VO's and Honjo's) WITH R-CLIP are the lowest profile because the screw head is even with the stay. The Berthoud-style stays are next best because the screw head sits atop the stay, sticking out a little further. An eyelet bolt sticks out even further. The difference is only a few mm.Le Cagotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-3163373727556518542009-09-10T14:06:58.218-04:002009-09-10T14:06:58.218-04:00Chris, your point about Berthoud fender mounts mak...Chris, your point about Berthoud fender mounts makes no sense at all. The Berthoud fender stay is actually flattened as it rounds the curve of the fender. It is bolted there through the fender. The eye bolts of Honjos and VO fenders allow the fender stay to remain proud of the fender surface and the bolts themselves protrude from the fender much further than those on Berthoud fenders.RMHampelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13583240793927828726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-40187816338223308462009-09-10T12:58:39.032-04:002009-09-10T12:58:39.032-04:00Better to learn to ride than to compromise design ...Better to learn to ride than to compromise design to accomodate clumsiness... though if it gets too bad with really small frames then smaller wheels make sense (they do anyway). 26" and 24" are both pretty common, so no need for obscure sizes. <br /><br />My city fixie has a fair bit of overlap and it's still safe and manageable. You learn how to deal with it and it becomes automatic.that guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47156441364536881442009-09-10T11:15:03.367-04:002009-09-10T11:15:03.367-04:00Chris: When you say no good 26" road tires, ...Chris: When you say no good 26" road tires, are you referring to faster tires?<br /><br />Some of Schwalbe's excellent touring and City tires, such as the Marathon, Big Apple, and Kojak come in 26" variations. In fact, I am putting together a bike to use the 26" Big Apples as the 29ers were just a little high for my 5' 11".<br /><br />Schwalbes are not at the level of the 650b Grand Bois offerings in comfort and appearance, but they are durable and have very low resistance.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61124913616279433562009-09-10T09:54:26.569-04:002009-09-10T09:54:26.569-04:00OK, enough of this TCO stuff. Let's discuss h...OK, enough of this TCO stuff. Let's discuss heel strike on the front tire of short-wheelbase recumbents.patates friteshttp://www.patates.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-66790498526569209382009-09-10T08:50:42.063-04:002009-09-10T08:50:42.063-04:00Leave the frame alone. Just don't use a fender...Leave the frame alone. Just don't use a fender like that with the bike.Sharone Youliediniannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39990329577079725502009-09-10T07:15:49.350-04:002009-09-10T07:15:49.350-04:00A couple of minor points.
Good point about keepin...A couple of minor points.<br /><br />Good point about keeping your toe down in tight turns.<br /><br />Traditional French struts (like Honjo or VO) with an R-clip, actually offer a little more clearance than the style Berthoud uses.<br /><br />Smaller wheels on small frames is a good compromise, but it limits tire selection. There are no really superb 26" road tires that I'm aware of. Of course 650b is better.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.com