tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post5408510181089987205..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Zen and the Art of Making StemsVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1627562289223503332012-08-01T09:04:29.056-04:002012-08-01T09:04:29.056-04:00Have there been any developments on these? Im desp...Have there been any developments on these? Im desperate to find an affordable good looking brazed stem that isnt as gaudy as the nitto lugged one or the ridiculously shaped tange lugged offerings. Im in love with the nitto craft 5 fillet stem, I think its a masterpiece, but it only comes in the goofy wide clamp diameter. I cant afford to have such a simple item custom made, its stupid. A 4-bolt faceplate would actually look classy with the craft 5 design, in 26.0. ...and by the way, I dont own any 1 1/8 steer tubes! I have nothing but 1" threadless, and its damn near impossible to find a stem I dont have to shim. The tall stack is a step in the right direction, but again, looks a little silly shimmed on top of any of the thin columbus tube bikes I have. Shimming looks tacky and disproportionate if there are more than a few mm of spacers, like a big dumb baby huey of a mountain bike took a big dump on the headset of my beautiful graceful road bike.I need a nitto craft 5 with a 26mm bar clamp and 1" steerer clamp!!! SOMEONE HELP!!!THornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-31479688357660600992010-09-28T02:33:22.927-04:002010-09-28T02:33:22.927-04:00What happened to these stems? Still under developm...What happened to these stems? Still under development? I want one, with nice finish all around.<br /><br />You could also try an Alex Singer style with a top cap. I think they have a shorter allen bolt screw that saves weight, and needs a long allen key.<br /><br />If it's going to be constructeur style, I believe it should have the best possible finish, and lightest option available.Ahmet Cemilogluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17178771889412279884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-17997993294103795632010-02-11T22:22:02.087-05:002010-02-11T22:22:02.087-05:00If it has a nice designer engraved logo, folks wou...If it has a nice designer engraved logo, folks would pay for it, but my tops is $150 without logo! and offer it in two styles classic 68° and 73° angles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-54886381180054425992009-08-12T08:35:54.146-04:002009-08-12T08:35:54.146-04:00function before looks
also, for those of us who h...function before looks<br /><br />also, for those of us who have been fixed, even steeper track angles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32020268522621959062009-08-10T20:44:57.019-04:002009-08-10T20:44:57.019-04:00That makes 4 sizes for the most collectible and de...That makes 4 sizes for the most collectible and desired off the peg bike of my youth. Now, dear anon, you might be able to name some other nice production frame of that era that you like better that came in more sizes. Still, I'd say that if it is so easy to find examples of current bikes which come in eight or nine sizes, and so hard to find examples of older production bikes which came in half that many, then I'd say I've done my work here. <br /><br />have a good day.<br /><br />mw<br /><br />Nice circular logic, with a side order of self-fulfilling prophecy! I am pierced by your rapier wit - not! FLC! (QED).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82025872322350035192009-08-10T12:59:10.318-04:002009-08-10T12:59:10.318-04:00leave them as is and i'll buy one for my "...leave them as is and i'll buy one for my "special" ride in a threadless 6. the price is a good comprimise between keeping it real and keeping it beautiful. <br /><br />hate the idea that folks can easily say these days that $100+ is reasonable for a well-made stem. if i had that much $$, i'd rather go down the street to yamaguchi and have him make a custom one instead of sending $150 or $200 to nitto just to have another forign company, no matter how cool they are (yes, good quality too), take the profit. <br /><br />make these for the masses, not the minority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39721595624267124552009-08-09T16:46:52.856-04:002009-08-09T16:46:52.856-04:00dear anon,
I have no idea what is making you so m...dear anon,<br /><br />I have no idea what is making you so miserable and angry and confused. I was not the one making the "unprovable" point. You were. Your contention was that bikes used to come in more sizes than now, when apparently you can only find them in s,m,l, and xl. I have pointed out that this is not true, and mentioned some popular off the shelf brands which come in 8 or 9 sizes. Or, you can peruse the latest Jamis or Kona (etc.) catalog, and I assure you, you'll find most road bikes coming in 8 or 9 sizes. Now, let's compare that to the very best production bike of my high school years, the glorious PX 10. Perhaps that bike isn't nice enough for you, but I assure you it was nice enough for me and most racers of the day. Here's the lowdown:<br /><br />"While the authors of this page have so far found no catalogs this early, both Eugene Sloane's Complete Book of Bicycling and Richard Ballantine's Richard's Bicycle Book, both first copyrighted this year, list almost identical specifications for the PX-10E. Mentioned are a 72 degree parallel frame design; Nervex lugs; Simplex Prestige Luxe 537 derailleur; Stronglight 93 crankset, 45/52T (Sloane mentions a model 63 "Super Competition"); Atom competition freewheel, 14-16-19-20-23T; Normandy Luxe Competition hubs w/ Simplex skewers; Mavic Montlery rims w/ Hutchinson tubular tires; Mafac "Racer" brakes; AVA alloy bars and stem; Lyotard 45CA dural pedals; Christophe clips and Lapize straps; Simplex seatpost; Brooks Professional saddle; available in blue or white, 21, 23, 24 and 25 inch frames."<br /><br />That makes 4 sizes for the most collectible and desired off the peg bike of my youth. Now, dear anon, you might be able to name some other nice production frame of that era that you like better that came in more sizes. Still, I'd say that if it is so easy to find examples of current bikes which come in eight or nine sizes, and so hard to find examples of older production bikes which came in half that many, then I'd say I've done my work here. <br /><br />have a good day.<br /><br />mwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-21673776857730628242009-08-09T14:48:59.925-04:002009-08-09T14:48:59.925-04:00See Chris - I told you getting rid of anonymous co...See Chris - I told you getting rid of anonymous commenting would be a good idea!J ustin.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14381051517089463268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-25760546159114470172009-08-09T12:54:13.397-04:002009-08-09T12:54:13.397-04:00dear anon,
MW hath writ:
and by the late 1970'...dear anon,<br />MW hath writ:<br />and by the late 1970's, toward the end of the greatest bike boom, Raleigh's most popular model, the Grand Prix, was coming out in 4 men's sizes. The good ol' Grand Prix and its French counterpart, the PUO-8, were remarkably wretched bikes, in design, materials, and execution, though I owned both and enjoyed them for a time. <br /><br />There are various stereotypes about geometry which are worth debunking. One is that modern bikes come in fewer sizes. Anyone who truly cares about bikes and rides them will probably want to cut through the drivel. Part of the truth is that the industry is actually not a bunch of baloney, but in fact there's a reason why 99%, at least, of the riders in your local club ride mainstream bikes like Treks, and if you get to know them, you just might find that they are not all completely depraved, hoodwinked, or ignorant. It's because the bikes work. There are a number of smart, savvy designers in the industry like Mike Sinyard, Sky Yeager, Joe Breeze, etc. There's also a nice opening outside the mainstream for companies like VO, but to find the opening I'd think it would help to know what the mainstream does.<br /><br />best,<br />michael white<br /><br />8/9/09 10:14 AM<br /><br />MW:<br />You keep listing low-end vintage bikes to 'prove' your unproveable point. That's nonsense. We aren't talking about low-end bicycles, never were. High-end stock vintage steel frames were available every one or two centimeters, and custom ones every millimeter. They all had level top tubes, as God intended. So-called 'compact geometry' is about as useful as 'compact' cranksets, which aren't at all compact, just easy to fit onto more road & mountain bikes with fat chainstays, resulting in terrible Q-factors.<br />I own and operate a bike shop, by the way, but thanks for the continuing insults.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-18086804625182273552009-08-09T12:33:49.690-04:002009-08-09T12:33:49.690-04:00It all looks good to me. As a profligate parts spe...It all looks good to me. As a profligate parts spender, I'd buy a the cheap threadless 6 degree and 73 degree just for fun, and if the more refined version was under $200, one or two of those, especially if they had a bell mount. Is there anyway you could do a trial run on each without running into prohibitive development costs? I'd be both would sell....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-43303033948671572342009-08-09T10:14:38.780-04:002009-08-09T10:14:38.780-04:00dear anon,
and by the late 1970's, toward the...dear anon,<br /><br />and by the late 1970's, toward the end of the greatest bike boom, Raleigh's most popular model, the Grand Prix, was coming out in 4 men's sizes. The good ol' Grand Prix and its French counterpart, the PUO-8, were remarkably wretched bikes, in design, materials, and execution, though I owned both and enjoyed them for a time. <br /><br />There are various stereotypes about geometry which are worth debunking. One is that modern bikes come in fewer sizes. Anyone who truly cares about bikes and rides them will probably want to cut through the drivel. Part of the truth is that the industry is actually not a bunch of baloney, but in fact there's a reason why 99%, at least, of the riders in your local club ride mainstream bikes like Treks, and if you get to know them, you just might find that they are not all completely depraved, hoodwinked, or ignorant. It's because the bikes work. There are a number of smart, savvy designers in the industry like Mike Sinyard, Sky Yeager, Joe Breeze, etc. There's also a nice opening outside the mainstream for companies like VO, but to find the opening I'd think it would help to know what the mainstream does.<br /><br />best,<br />michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-84924150176202887322009-08-08T22:41:58.174-04:002009-08-08T22:41:58.174-04:00MW said:
if you don't want a baloney bike, don...MW said:<br />if you don't want a baloney bike, don't buy one. There are lots of choices. I ride lots of bikes, some made this year, some made twenty years ago, and all are fabulous. The reality is that Treks, Cannondales, Colnagos, and most other bikes sold actually come in a vast array of sizes these days, way way way way more than at any other period in history, as anyone would know who patronized a real live bike shop. Beach cruisers and mtn bikes are different, I suppose. It's nice that companies such as VO are sprouting up to address some of the more specialized needs, at great prices. The stem is a marvelous example.<br /><br />best,<br />michael white<br /><br />8/8/09 1:11 PM<br /><br /><br /> Anonymous (MW) then said... <br />As a further point to my above comment, consider the following. A lovely 1964 Raleigh Carlton, one of my favorite road bikes, came in two sizes, 21.5 and 23.5. Two sizes. My French bikes were charming but often ill-fitting, for similar reasons. <br /><br />Cannondales and Colnagos come sized every centimeter now as always, though with the latter, you might have to buy the frame separately for some sizes. Treks come typically in 8 sizes, every two centimeters, for midline off the peg models. Giant, which is often credited and sometimes villified for bringing compact geometry to production bikes, comes in 9 sizes in road models. Some of us prefer made to measure, as always, but it isn't true at all that geometry has been dumbed down for off the peg bikes; the opposite is true. Bikes come in more sizes now than ever, not to mention genres. <br /><br />michael white<br /><br />8/8/09 1:45 PM<br />To which I respond:<br />Nice job of picking oddities to suit your purpose, but I'm not buying it, sorry. Thanks for the insult, though. I would expect that from you....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-86234003877357573842009-08-08T13:45:46.922-04:002009-08-08T13:45:46.922-04:00As a further point to my above comment, consider t...As a further point to my above comment, consider the following. A lovely 1964 Raleigh Carlton, one of my favorite road bikes, came in two sizes, 21.5 and 23.5. Two sizes. My French bikes were charming but often ill-fitting, for similar reasons. <br /><br />Cannondales and Colnagos come sized every centimeter now as always, though with the latter, you might have to buy the frame separately for some sizes. Treks come typically in 8 sizes, every two centimeters, for midline off the peg models. Giant, which is often credited and sometimes villified for bringing compact geometry to production bikes, comes in 9 sizes in road models. Some of us prefer made to measure, as always, but it isn't true at all that geometry has been dumbed down for off the peg bikes; the opposite is true. Bikes come in more sizes now than ever, not to mention genres. <br /><br />michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-42769473634685435092009-08-08T13:11:20.915-04:002009-08-08T13:11:20.915-04:00IMO the problem with 'today's geometry'...IMO the problem with 'today's geometry' is that it is baloney, invented solely for ease of manufacturing, not to create useful products for consumers, unfortunately. (Ditto for 1.125-inch headsets, imo). Cyclists don't fit into size categories of 'small, medium, large.'<br /><br />if you don't want a baloney bike, don't buy one. There are lots of choices. I ride lots of bikes, some made this year, some made twenty years ago, and all are fabulous. The reality is that Treks, Cannondales, Colnagos, and most other bikes sold actually come in a vast array of sizes these days, way way way way more than at any other period in history, as anyone would know who patronized a real live bike shop. Beach cruisers and mtn bikes are different, I suppose. It's nice that companies such as VO are sprouting up to address some of the more specialized needs, at great prices. The stem is a marvelous example.<br /><br />best,<br />michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-65717122458202942092009-08-08T09:35:28.188-04:002009-08-08T09:35:28.188-04:00I agree that most of today's bikes are not sui...I agree that most of today's bikes are not suited for traditional stems, but hey, I don't like today's bikes either. They all look either like mountain bikes with skinny tires, or like bikes made to strap onto the back of a matching Formula 1 racer (as opposed to being ridden in the real world).<br /><br />By the way, I don't believe that bikes were necessarily sized larger (at least not in the past that is still within my lifetime). Having been a cyclist back then, it seems to me that this is mostly myth perpetuated by internet web sites. What really happened is that the average cyclist back then didn't set the saddle as high as we do nowadays. Consequently, even with a properly-sized frame, the saddle ended up closer to handlebar level (aided by the fact that stem quills were a little longer at that time than how they became later on in the 80's).<br /><br />No matter what argument is made in favour of upsloped stems, they completely break up the lines of any level top tube bike, because they are at an angle that doesn't match anything else. They stick up like sore thumbs.<br /><br />Personally, I love a nice, level, chromoly stem. The only problem is that nice ones are obscenely expensive. If not for that reason, I would take a chromed steel stem over an aluminum one any day. It would be perfect for my lugged steel sport tourer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-29837650817540995662009-08-07T21:30:44.255-04:002009-08-07T21:30:44.255-04:00IMO the problem with 'today's geometry'...IMO the problem with 'today's geometry' is that it is baloney, invented solely for ease of manufacturing, not to create useful products for consumers, unfortunately. (Ditto for 1.125-inch headsets, imo). Cyclists don't fit into size categories of 'small, medium, large.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-31101740525582210742009-08-07T13:54:00.463-04:002009-08-07T13:54:00.463-04:00I suggest a nicely finished and top side finished ...I suggest a nicely finished and top side finished version, both in -17 and +6 degree, 80, 100 and 120mm length. Make the quill almost as long as the Technomic Deluxe. That should cover all your bases. A bell mount would be great also.erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08236314919413601098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75117783636164124512009-08-07T11:12:38.130-04:002009-08-07T11:12:38.130-04:00I just have to say something. Many here keep sayin...I just have to say something. Many here keep saying that they want a level stem . . . in the 70's and before, bikes were sized differently--you'd take the biggest frame you could straddle--and top tubes were shorter to match. I rode a 23" bike, whereas for the past couple of decades I have ridden a two inch smaller frame. I could not ride a 23" frame now if I wanted to. The level stems went with the old geometry. Our bikes don't fit like that anymore, headtubes are shorter (about two inches), and top tubes are longer. That's why, as far as level stems go, the most popular ones have extralong quills. Traditional stems with normal length quills and level extensions are all but gone. I use the Pearl on a few bikes, which has a slightly longer quill. It's among my favorites, but I also use stems with some rise, like the Nitto Dynamic 2, and the Salsa, and love em all . . . Adding a bit of rise to a quill stem means several things, all of them good: one is that it solves existing fit issues; two is that it's lighter; three is that it's stiffer for the same weight. Four is that you won't need to add a bunch of spacers. I realize there are some riders from the olden days who think (so to speak) stems should look like they always did, regardless of today's geometry . . . but a stem with a bit of rise is functionally a great thing for today's bikes and today's riders; it means bikes which didn't use to fit will now fit. Even when I'm in great shape, I tend to ride stems pretty near the max line, and most riders, unless they're teenagers on fixies or crit racers, tend to do the same. It's nothing to get upset about. If VO stands for function, that is. <br /><br />michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-31991200215726420652009-08-07T09:55:39.629-04:002009-08-07T09:55:39.629-04:00If you are talking about threadless stems, I hope ...If you are talking about threadless stems, I hope you offer them in a 17 degree rise. Classic threaded stems were almost always 17 degrees, and a silver brazed threadless stem is the best way to combine classic looks with modern technology.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04892849214745806826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-7033108960918753522009-08-06T21:14:52.940-04:002009-08-06T21:14:52.940-04:00Fwiw, the Nitto lugged stems are available for $16...Fwiw, the Nitto lugged stems are available for $169 at Bicycle Classics, so you might want to consider that a 'ceiling,' if you will....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-69402041042914472932009-08-06T20:49:13.659-04:002009-08-06T20:49:13.659-04:00For my money you can't see under the stem once...For my money you can't see under the stem once it is mounted. Unless you practice yoga on a bike. It makes the product more accessible. Now, the well to do restorers may not be satisfied but maybe it allows a whole new group of people to participate....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-54678630018063702692009-08-06T19:37:36.864-04:002009-08-06T19:37:36.864-04:00Part of the point of angled threadless stems is t...Part of the point of angled threadless stems is that they could be reversed depending on whether you need to raise or lower the handlebar position. Finishing both sides makes both options equally viable, aesthetically that is.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881687214959338748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-26369063250233090112009-08-06T14:16:07.466-04:002009-08-06T14:16:07.466-04:00After reading the comments posted, I'm sure th...After reading the comments posted, I'm sure there is a market for this type stem at both a higher finish, and lower finish price points. I've got several very similar stems made by Jack Taylor and they look great on classic my classic bikes. I'm in need of a couple now to finish out two current projects, can't wait to place an order. Mike Thompson Monroe, LAMeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17431187039414085802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-41581892624810835622009-08-06T14:11:35.869-04:002009-08-06T14:11:35.869-04:00Man, I hang out (virtually) with one strange crowd...Man, I hang out (virtually) with one strange crowd! :-).<br /><br />I think you absolutely need a -17 degree, level stem. Makes little sense for you to do without one given your niche.<br /><br />But worrying about the finish on the underside? Srsly? Cannot imagine why anyone would care. The irregular welding makes it look as though someone actually made it with his own hands. <br /><br />Will RodgerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-89519719742693588112009-08-06T13:26:43.096-04:002009-08-06T13:26:43.096-04:00As-is. These are beautiful. Simple elegant desig...As-is. These are beautiful. Simple elegant design within the constraint of maximizing function is the ultimate beauty. Let's enjoy these and use our valuable resources to improve quality of life for others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com