tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post4980596312417584986..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Brett's VO Rando BikeVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-55621411056328003772008-05-09T08:42:00.000-04:002008-05-09T08:42:00.000-04:00Very pretty. Mine is set up almost the same but w...Very pretty. Mine is set up almost the same but with bigger racks and a vintage frame, just 1.5lbs heavier, less than 1/3 the cost! Velvety smooth, and that paint! Go Klein Porteur! I would like to see more bikes by people who have created works of art without unlimited budgets.benfidarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17074058102279306928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82811967458132202112008-05-09T08:37:00.000-04:002008-05-09T08:37:00.000-04:00Very pretty. Mine is set up almost the same but w...Very pretty. Mine is set up almost the same but with bigger racks and a vintage frame, just 1.5lbs heavier, less than 1/3 the cost! Velvety smooth, and that paint! Go Klein Porteur! I would like to see more bikes by people who have created works of art without unlimited budgets.benfidarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17074058102279306928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-14106410772615141372008-05-08T19:38:00.000-04:002008-05-08T19:38:00.000-04:00Anon,I didn't mean DaVinci couldn't paint. I had ...Anon,<BR/>I didn't mean DaVinci couldn't paint. I had originally gave him credit for the Pieta.<BR/><BR/>Joel,<BR/>I dunno, Rivendell has had a number of builders over the years. They're still Rivs. Most of the European builders had others doing some or all of the work. Cinelli , Colnago ,etc, probably Herse to some degree, too. I think the design, the vision, is more important than who brazed the lugs.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-23153567974646957362008-05-07T21:57:00.000-04:002008-05-07T21:57:00.000-04:00I rather enjoy looking at Herse's work. The propo...I rather enjoy looking at Herse's work. The proportions tend toward perfection. There is a purposeful dynamism in their design. I also enjoy looking at DaVinci's paintings and sculpture.<BR/><BR/>If Coast does indeed get increasingly better as the years go by, those of us willing to wait 3 years for a bike have much to anticipate.<BR/><BR/>All the more reason as well that VO not bring in another builder. Wouldn't you hate being the person 40 years from now with the VO Rando made by 'oh what was his name? the VO builder who wasn't Coast...'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-59079869848922145762008-05-06T17:30:00.000-04:002008-05-06T17:30:00.000-04:00DaVinci isn't considered a great painter? You're ...DaVinci isn't considered a great painter? You're kidding, right? <BR/><BR/>Aside from two works (the Mona Lisa and The Last Supper) that are among the most revered and reproduced anywhere, he did some sublime slightly lesser known ones like the Annunciation and the Virgin and Child with St. Anne.<BR/><BR/>Like Vermeer, he has only a small body of work compared to other major figures like Titian or a Rembrandt. I was not an art major, I'm pretty sure he is thought of as a great artist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-77898506507515352152008-05-06T14:50:00.000-04:002008-05-06T14:50:00.000-04:00De Vinci - Michelangelo, whatever.Atleast he was I...De Vinci - Michelangelo, whatever.<BR/>Atleast he was Italian.<BR/>I think I'd better plead "senior moment" on this one, as I was an Art Major myself, so I really don't have any excuse.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-383053685604952312008-05-06T14:37:00.000-04:002008-05-06T14:37:00.000-04:00da vinci isn't considered a great painter, or scul...da vinci isn't considered a great painter, or sculptor, really. we could compare him more to herse, i think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-10251052752595652612008-05-06T12:26:00.000-04:002008-05-06T12:26:00.000-04:00Come to think of it, I was thinking of Michelangel...Come to think of it, I was thinking of Michelangelo's Pieta when reading Gunnar's post. <BR/><BR/>I don't know that DaVinci was much of a sculptor or that there is a Pieta attributed to him.<BR/><BR/>Still you can toss in Vitruvian Man to show his understanding of anatomy and its artistic representation in two dimensionsKarlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03205326636138161213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36751490216418452172008-05-06T12:18:00.000-04:002008-05-06T12:18:00.000-04:00I think that we may be dealing with a rather speci...I think that we may be dealing with a rather special case with Leonardo. <BR/><BR/>Let's see: the Pieta, the Mona Lisa and The Last Supper, anatomy, astronomy, botany, geology, geometry and optics. <BR/><BR/>He also designed machines and drew plans for over 100 inventions.<BR/><BR/>Picasso might have been a greater artist, Tesla a greater inventor, Einstein a physicist but it's hard to argue that Leonardo wasn't the most versatile genius ever and thereby perhaps the greatest.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03205326636138161213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61589552816106960052008-05-06T10:42:00.000-04:002008-05-06T10:42:00.000-04:00Johnson,Just as a counterpoint, I think Leonardo D...Johnson,<BR/>Just as a counterpoint, I think Leonardo De Vinci was 19 when he liberated The Pieta from it's marble block.<BR/><BR/>I can't think of any bicycle content. Maybe he rode good Italian steel.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34178514744873959252008-05-06T10:35:00.000-04:002008-05-06T10:35:00.000-04:00Johnson,I was in Curt's shop last Friday and we ta...Johnson,<BR/>I was in Curt's shop last Friday and we talked a little about Rivendell. It wasn't a bad parting. He has nothing but good to say about Grant.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-35171985773100745172008-05-06T09:46:00.000-04:002008-05-06T09:46:00.000-04:00gunnar, according to curt and riv's site, he does,...gunnar, according to curt and riv's site, he does, not that that means anything. <BR/><BR/>there are more than a few accounts of cruddy herse craftsmanship. you bought a herse for the innovation, the integration, not how it prefectly it was made. this is not to diminish herse, but merely to point out that he and sachs swing/swung at a different ball. herse was and will remain a favorite of mine, but not because of how well he built things. <BR/><BR/>i am a painter, amongst other things. i have found that with each painting, my technique gets a little more fluent, my concepts a little more solid. i have been painting for years. i dont think that process of continual learning will ever stop. i have reason to believe it wont. i look back through history, and realize many of the best painters did not achieve thier best works until late in life. to name the obvious ones: matisse, diebenkorn, rembrant, duher... the list goes on. these people did not come into painting as masters, and a few years of painting did not make them masters. if they continually jumped styles, or only produced a few paintings a year, they would not become masters. they couldnt. its a numbers, and a time, and a commitment game. that's all i am saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-45909922788364322052008-05-06T07:35:00.000-04:002008-05-06T07:35:00.000-04:00Johnson,I don't believe Curt Goodrich has any conn...Johnson,<BR/><BR/>I don't believe Curt Goodrich has any connection with Rivendell anymore. He built 1500 frames before he put his own name on them.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62256667217654952582008-05-06T07:31:00.000-04:002008-05-06T07:31:00.000-04:00Hey Joel,Just to throw another thought out there t...Hey Joel,<BR/>Just to throw another thought out there that'll probably piss some off. Herse was innovative with his components and pushed the envelope on what a touring bike can be. BUT...his level of finish doesn't even come close too what is considered minimal now. The old constructeurs were building bike to be ridden, not looked at. <BR/><BR/>My humble opinion.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47175648359460083522008-05-05T22:30:00.000-04:002008-05-05T22:30:00.000-04:00Johnson: Hope you do not think I was jumping down ...Johnson: Hope you do not think I was jumping down your throat. I was not.<BR/><BR/>My point it is simple: Coast has real skill and flair with lugs. There are a decent number of young builders out there. I have seen few that match Coast.<BR/><BR/>Experience means a lot. But maybe not as much as you suggest. Check out Herse's work. He was special as a young builder starting out and special to the end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39202249024830522842008-05-05T21:58:00.000-04:002008-05-05T21:58:00.000-04:00jeez, people. you make it seem like i was jumping...jeez, people. you make it seem like i was jumping down someone's throat about this. here it is: people are buying bikes from chris because he has gone to a builder and said this is what i want. he had to go to a newish builder to get the price people would want to pay. i am saying he should stick with this program, it's a good one. but! why not get another builder? the builder, in THIS CASE is collaborating with a designer. think grant petersen and curt goodrich. grant can also farm stuff out to toyo, national, waterford, etc, and he does. Coast is good, sure, but why not add another, if someone else is willing to be added, that is equally up to snuff? long wait times are logically when you are one guy selling frames. this is not the case here. <BR/><BR/>as for the red and white color scheme, people just want it. i mean, there is a story, and you should get that copy of the rivendell reader if you want it all, but it sort of just happened (through a sponser thing) and it became his color, and now there are no questions about it. Its not a bad thing, because its not a bad set of colors. i'm pretty sure there is nothing related to rush limbaugh in his color choice. i own a variety of different bikes, all different colors, but if i got a sachs, i would get the red and white. 'why not' i think is a better question than why. personally, and this will start a ruckus, i dont know that there is a more experienced living builder. some may carve things up nicer, or use fancier paint, or have more integrated this or that, but i doubt (highly) that any one making lugged frames in america has more experience making lugged frames in america, esp to a consistently high quality. baylis makes a few frames a year, gordon tigs stuff most of the time, sacha makes a frame a week, tops, curt maybe will get there some day but it will take 20 years, and then he will only be where sachs is today. <BR/><BR/>looking at fancy lugs and flowing paint do not tell the story of how well a bike is made. consistency and feel for the torch are not unlike consistency and feel for a paint brush or say, the relationship between a flame, a frying pan and a well made omelet. you need to make dozens of omelets before every one you bang out is good, and hundreds before every omelet is an object of desire. putting some fresh cut chives on top and organic feta inside doesnt make it a master piece. the 300 you screwed up learning how to make the 301st do. I have more analogies, including trade guilds, post modern philosophy, and sports cars, if any one wants to go further with this. <BR/><BR/><BR/>wow that was a rant and a half. eat me alive. or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16049048728513418322008-05-05T21:06:00.000-04:002008-05-05T21:06:00.000-04:00Maybe Richard Sachs is as good as they say, I don'...Maybe Richard Sachs is as good as they say, I don't know. But I can tell you this: every freaking bike of his I see photographed on the net is white & red or red & white. What's up with that? Is he like Henry "you-can-have-it-in-any-color-you-want-as-long-as it's-black" Ford? Or are his customers all as dumb as Rush ditto heads with lots of money to spare? Inquiring minds want to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62620003626944743382008-05-05T18:09:00.000-04:002008-05-05T18:09:00.000-04:00Johnson:I have been to the NAHBS twice and have se...Johnson:<BR/><BR/>I have been to the NAHBS twice and have seen a good number of custom bikes in my day.<BR/><BR/>Certainly Coast is not yet at the level of a Sachs, Bruce Gordon or Baylis. But he is very good. His lug detail and overall eye for proportions is very impressive.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, only a few of the younger builders are at Coast's level. And those builders all have pretty long wait lists. <BR/><BR/>Heck, I ordered a custom retro-TIG welded bike as a graduation gift for my nephew. I ordered it more than 8 months ago and the builder (who had a pretty good reputation) will not promise he can have it by the end of May.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34024282812917639252008-05-05T16:51:00.000-04:002008-05-05T16:51:00.000-04:00I don't own a Richard Sachs but do have a Mariposa...I don't own a Richard Sachs but do have a Mariposa. <BR/><BR/>Here's what Mariposa's Mike Barry had to say when Large Fella on a Bike asked him about other builders: <BR/><BR/>LFOAB: "Any cycles out there that you secretly wished, "Darn, I wish I'd built that!"?<BR/><BR/>MB: "Richard Sachs."<BR/><BR/>That's serious praise from a builder of the first rank.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03205326636138161213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62688215399658006322008-05-05T15:47:00.000-04:002008-05-05T15:47:00.000-04:00I brought Richard Sachs up as an example of an est...I brought Richard Sachs up as an example of an established and reputable maker, who justifiably has a long wait list. This is not to diminish any other frame maker's work, but I do think a certain credibility comes from having made a large number of frames of a consistently high quality. I like Curt's frames. I like Coast's frames. My intention was merely to bring up the fact that Chris isn't personally making these bikes, so there would be no harm in trying to shorten the wait list by finding more builders. If the demand is there...<BR/><BR/>and btw, according to an interview in the reader with sachs a few years ago, he does make a few touring frames a year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-6656616511551661502008-05-05T14:12:00.000-04:002008-05-05T14:12:00.000-04:00Yes, the antique brown has always been my favorite...Yes, the antique brown has always been my favorite Brooks color too and I would never buy one new today at $300+. Luckily I bought 2 of these 3 years ago from a UK site direct for less than $130 each. I should have bought more, would have been a good investment! <BR/><BR/>I thought it was interesting that Dahon had a custom run of non-Ti brown brooks made for this bike. http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-66373185783593217072008-05-05T13:19:00.000-04:002008-05-05T13:19:00.000-04:00It's a lovely bike build, especially the Antique B...It's a lovely bike build, especially the Antique Brown saddle/bar covers. <BR/><BR/>That's one small beef that I have with Brooks. The brown looks even better than the honey IMO and I say this as someone who has honey and black B17 Specials) but I can't justify $200 more for Ti rails.<BR/><BR/>Why is it that The B17 Special Ti, and Flyer Special come in brown but not the B17 Special?Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03205326636138161213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-8288573308205336232008-05-04T22:01:00.000-04:002008-05-04T22:01:00.000-04:00The friend I bought my Bilenky from had orange SKS...The friend I bought my Bilenky from had orange SKS fenders painted to match. The front met it's untimely death at the hand of a small stone picked up on a gravel trail, shattered the fender in two even with the breakaway stays.<BR/><BR/>I'm not so convinced they do much, and if you're setting up your fender correctly the gap between fender and tire at the bottom will be the smaller than the gap on the other side of the fork/brake bridge, helping to prevent this kind of thing.<BR/><BR/>As far as everything else goes, the nice thing about bicycles is you can set them up any way you want and there is no one way. 5 speed, 10 speed, DT shifters, ergolevers, it's all up to you.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07434219818361831871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90292855913216011532008-05-04T17:48:00.000-04:002008-05-04T17:48:00.000-04:00"Yes, the SKS front fender mounting does work well..."Yes, the SKS front fender mounting does work well."<BR/><BR/>Thanks, that's good to know. I haven't had any problems like that, but I've only been using fenders for about a year.Ian Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14721391514711042385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-43191338330542185912008-05-04T15:27:00.000-04:002008-05-04T15:27:00.000-04:00Ive had, and have seen and heard others have, fend...Ive had, and have seen and heard others have, fender- stay front wheel jams that are both funny to watch -- and terrifying! <BR/><BR/>Yes, the SKS front fender mounting does work well. It also makes it easier to put a bike on a roof rack by popping out the stays, especially given longer front fenders that often hit the rack rail. <BR/><BR/>Ive had too many sticks and other road crap get caught up in my front wheel fender to trust a rigid fender stay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com