tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post4741565621040319178..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Paleo RamblingVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-89334393102958311612011-02-22T09:53:53.267-05:002011-02-22T09:53:53.267-05:00Brad, Age, in this case, is determined by examinin...Brad, Age, in this case, is determined by examining skeletal remains, not birth records.<br /><br />Taubes is a good writer who makes complex ideas easy to understand, but he actually leaves out a lot in order to make it simple. I've read dozens of books and hundreds, if not thousands, of papers, articles, and blog posts by Phds and MDs researching nutrition. Based on years or reading I'm 100% certain that a pre-industrial diet is optimal for human health.<br /><br />Also, you must recognize that the grain-fed and chemical-laden meat we get from factory farms is very different from that coming from animals eating the diet they evolved to eat. I wouldn't eat a fast food hamburger or an Outback steak more than once a year either.<br /><br />Finally, there is a startling amount of politics and industrial lobbying that influences mainstream nutritional advice. You are not only being fed industrial foods, but also a bill of goods.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-55618914427413700302011-02-22T08:58:41.554-05:002011-02-22T08:58:41.554-05:00Chris wrote:
"Actually many, if not most, pr...Chris wrote:<br /><br />"Actually many, if not most, pre-industrial peoples lived virtually as long as long as modern humans, provided they made it through the dangerous childhood and teen years."<br /><br />That's an astounding and pretty much unverifiable fact given that no birth records exist for most pre-industrial peoples. As the Steve Austad (a leading research in the science of aging) likes to say, "If you don’t know when you were born, the odds are you’re going to be 150 years old by the time you die." But even for those who did survive past age 25 or 30 and lived long lives, you're talking about the far-right tail of the bell curve. Those people are analogous to the five-pack-a-day smokers who live into their 90s despite the odds. There are hundreds of thousands of them, but there are tens of millions of smokers who die from cancer before they reach 70. Your chances of being one of the lucky people at the tail of the bell curve are vanishingly small.<br /><br />You wrote: "Studies like the AARP study are mostly garbage science." In fact the NIH/AARP study didn't just look at red meat consumption in isolation; they evaluated a number of other risk factors, and they (and other studies) have been able to isolate risk differences between people who eat a lot of red meat versus those who eat a lot of processed red meat, and even people who eat very-well-done meat versus meat cooked to medium. This is far from junk science; these studies are constructed, tested, debated, and analyzed by some of the best minds out there, with no underlying motivation other than to learn the truth. <br /><br />There are good reasons why the medical and dietary establishment hasn't shifted to espousing Taubes's arguments and those of the studies he cites. They have finally accepted that "low fat diets" are counterproductive, and dietary guidelines are shifting away from that. But there's so much evidence pointing to the dangers of saturated fat and red meat in general that it's going to take time to sort out what's right and what's wrong. <br /><br />Taubes could be right, of course. Science isn't done by vote, and one person who's right is worth 10,000 who are wrong. But you have to remember that Taubes is a journalist, and one who has always been drawn to controversy, and it's easy to find studies that support a contrarian view. But until a few large studies on the scale of NIH/AARP can confirm Taubes's claims, I'd rather base my eating habits on the findings of the enormous body of evidence that says eating a diet rich in red meat is not good for you.Brad Hurleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16908467751667481586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-38684559797703604822011-02-22T07:35:45.620-05:002011-02-22T07:35:45.620-05:00Brad, Actually many, if not most, pre-industrial p...Brad, Actually many, if not most, pre-industrial peoples lived virtually as long as long as modern humans, provided they made it through the dangerous childhood and teen years. And they were/are far healthier than moderns, virtually no diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc.<br /><br />Studies like the AARP study are mostly garbage science. Look at how the China Study was found to be so flawed that re-analysis found completely contradictory results. For example, people who eat red meat also tend to eat a lot of sugar and wheat. There is a huge amount of evidence that sugar and modern wheat and modern seed oils are the three main causes of the "diseases of civilization". Saturated fat, when confounding factors are excluded, is now seen as harmless, or even beneficial. Most of the nutritional advice you read in the popular media is at least 10 years behind the latest science.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-59098053595161956782011-02-21T21:06:25.592-05:002011-02-21T21:06:25.592-05:00@Anonymous: the paleo diet has been practiced for ...@Anonymous: the paleo diet has been practiced for 200,000 years but for most of those years the human life expectancy was about half what it is today. Most of the diseases that are related to a diet rich in saturated fats start kicking in around the age that most of our ancestors were already dead.<br /><br />In 2009, the National Institutes of Health and AARP published a major study performed over 10 years on half a million people ages 50-71. THe mean who ate the most red meat had a 31% higher death rate than the men who ate the least, and similar studies involving hundreds of thousands of subjects found strong associations between consumption of red meat and colon cancer. Meta-analyses have confirmed these findings. <br /><br />Fish and poulty don't carry the same risks, nor do vegetables. It's clear that "low fat" diets can be counterproductive, leading people to overconsume carbohydrates, and when those carbohydrates are refined lots of bad things happen.<br /><br />I love a good steak - about twice a year. The rest of the time I live on veggies, grains, and beans, with chicken, eggs, and fish supplying much of my protein. I've never bonked on a long ride, and I'm 52.Brad Hurleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16908467751667481586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61180207271699823602011-02-16T10:39:15.347-05:002011-02-16T10:39:15.347-05:00Benterati, The paleo way of eating has been practi...Benterati, The paleo way of eating has been practiced for over 200,000 years. It's hardly a fad diet. The vegetarianism fad, is only a few hundred years old :<)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-30615371121663924582011-02-15T10:55:01.897-05:002011-02-15T10:55:01.897-05:00I second the Calif Central Coast.
"Diets&quo...I second the Calif Central Coast.<br /><br />"Diets" come and go constantly. There are only Fats, Proteins and,Carbs to play with. I Have Been vegetarian for over 40 years. When I am riding a lot or, in cold weather I increase the quantity of quality fats in my diet. Most vegetarians get plenty of Protein. <br />I think the average American diet is so poor that any change will be perceived as good.<br /><br />Ethics and Environmental impact are worthy of consideration also.Benteratihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495518652133510390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-83960226420968080202011-02-14T21:31:31.569-05:002011-02-14T21:31:31.569-05:00Ah, the rain in Portland ain't so bad after yo...Ah, the rain in Portland ain't so bad after you get used to it. And "cold" is relative-we've been seeing a high of 50F when the East Coast has been buried under 50 feet of snow.<br /><br />Though the thing that might stop ya from coming to Portland is all those vegans! And they bicycle!<br />;-)adventure!https://www.blogger.com/profile/11840448827760637569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-68190816709472740252011-02-12T09:44:04.878-05:002011-02-12T09:44:04.878-05:00Vancouver has quite a few VO dealers: Dream cycle,...Vancouver has quite a few VO dealers: Dream cycle, Jet Grrl, Rain City, Cambie will be your best bet.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56496354931884063662011-02-08T23:59:27.732-05:002011-02-08T23:59:27.732-05:00How did you find Vancouver? I wish there was a sh...How did you find Vancouver? I wish there was a shop in Vancouver that was well stocked with velo orange gear. As it is a few shops are Velo Orange dealers but carry very little so things have to be special ordered anyway. My husband has ordered from Velo Orange directly, but it took so long to get through customs etc.. would be nice to have at least one Canadian base to counter that.<br />Anyway, San Luis Obisco is beautiful! Apparently has one of the best living standards over all on earth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-11320806205412919852011-02-08T11:34:06.278-05:002011-02-08T11:34:06.278-05:00None of us interested in Paleo nutrition support f...None of us interested in Paleo nutrition support factory farms. But there is no question that mankind evolved on and is healthiest on an omnivorous diet. And pastured animals are, in fact, sustainable as is some fishing. What is not sustainable is an ever increasing population of sickly humans choking the earth. Most of sustainability ultimately comes down to reining in population growth.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-2883742048610523772011-02-07T17:28:31.853-05:002011-02-07T17:28:31.853-05:00chris, it hardly matters that "every bit of s...chris, it hardly matters that "every bit of science shows that humans evolved as carnivores." (science is conflicted on this point, btw.) in universal time we've only been farming for the blink of an eye. factory farms--the method by which the VAST majority of our meat is produced--have existed for only a fraction of that blink. now consider the amount of damage our appetites have done to the world, and to its inhabitants, in just a sliver of universal time. then consider which choice is more sustainable for the earth, if not your body.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-45533694093270390272011-02-07T11:39:37.641-05:002011-02-07T11:39:37.641-05:00Sorry about that broken link.Hopefully this is me ...Sorry about that broken link.Hopefully <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45715354@N06/4408342213/" rel="nofollow">this</a> is me touring on the paleo diet.Bike Hermithttp://www.biketouringnews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62975895619890144372011-02-07T11:36:41.157-05:002011-02-07T11:36:41.157-05:00Bike, Atkins was demonized by the established medi...Bike, Atkins was demonized by the established medical community, but in the past decade most of what he said has been proven correct. It has been repeatedly shown that carbs, not saturated fats, are the major cause of heart disease. And most of what the American Heart Association has said has been called into question. Atkins was just ahead of his time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-10938694879032627482011-02-07T11:14:34.494-05:002011-02-07T11:14:34.494-05:00I know Grant and consider him a friend. Anything h...I know Grant and consider him a friend. Anything he says or does relative to bicycle design is gospel IMHO. Diet and sartorial advice, not so much.<br />As an ectomorph I'm afraid <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45715354@N06/440" rel="nofollow">this</a> is what would happen to me on the paleo diet.<br />Dr. Ronald Krauss, senior scientist at Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute and founder and past chair of the American Heart Assn.’s Council on Nutrition, Physical Activity and Metabolism, says that while he fundamentally agrees with those advocating fewer dietary carbs, he doesn’t like to demonize one food group.<br /><br />That said, he adds, those who eat too many calories tend to overconsume carbohydrates, particularly refined carbohydrates and sugars. “It can be extremely valuable to limit carbohydrate intake and substitute protein and fat. I am glad to see so many people in the medical community getting on board. But in general I don’t recommend extreme dietary measures for promoting health.”<br />"refined carbohydrate and sugars" might be the problem. <br />I think it's important not to go overboard with new(or not so new, remember Atkins?)fadsBike Hermithttp://www.biketouringnews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-20016378931036845912011-02-06T23:21:50.912-05:002011-02-06T23:21:50.912-05:00Chris... sorry I didn't know you were coming t...Chris... sorry I didn't know you were coming to San Luis Obispo. I would have given you the Grand Tour. I spend a bit of time at the SLO bike Kitchen... and it is a pretty fun place. We have an amazing bunch of Cyclists of all types. With respect to business here... I started my shoe company here (Simple Shoes). It is an expensive place to live but it has dropped about 30% lately. There are a lot of very interesting people here due to Cal Poly being here. Lot of Professors... interesting students... etc. The students make up an much of the job pool. <br /><br />There is an Innovation and Entrepreneurial Center at the college... which is a constant source of crazy new ideas if you get involved. The university is a partner in a few small startups where students have ideas. <br /><br />We are one of the early cities to put on a Pecha Kucha Event... and have had 14 so far. There is a great alternative movie theatre... great coffee... great ocean opportunities... surfing, boating, etc<br /><br />Several of my friends have started large mail order companies here. There is a great fulfillment service here too if you decide to warehouse stuff here and don't want to run it yourself. The airport is big enough. <br /><br />anyway...SLO is one of the nicest places on the planet IMHO <br /><br />BLAH BLAH BLAH... anyway... you have my email in your system.... contact me so you get the inside scoop. I know many of the... ahem... "non lycra" type cyclists. I can introduce you to people that might be the beginning of a branch here. I am also great friends with most of architects and most of the commercial real estate guys... several of whom are SERIOUS cyclists.<br /><br />I'm bummed to have missed your trip!Eric Meyerhttp://www.themovement.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-77162087827057658062011-02-04T13:56:43.317-05:002011-02-04T13:56:43.317-05:00Diets are very subjective, i.e. what works for one...Diets are very subjective, i.e. what works for one may not work for others. Jack LaLanne ate no processed carbs but also no meat (x/c for fish) and no dairy. Yet he died at 96 and was very active almost to the end the end. Ernest Borgnine (who at 94 may or may not be in the greatest health), says he quit eating meat 35 years ago and attributes his longevity mostly to that. I lost 100 pounds eating a low-cal diet 30 years ago and have kept it off since then mostly by watching my carbs and fats and exercising moderately. Fresh foods are almost universally thought better than processed, and meat is okay in moderation, but the development of agriculture is thought to have arisen because wild game and plants couldn't support the growing human population. My concern about the paleo diet is not only what's better for humans but what's better for planet. I prefer to limit my meat consumption and my intake of processed carbs, and when I do so I feel better and keep my weight down. <br /><br />Your mileage may vary.<br /><br />On the bicycling topic, I love your products! I keep a wish list (cranks, fenders, bars) for my next set of upgrades.Halhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12934644513637899239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-5451514133959569062011-02-04T11:31:00.826-05:002011-02-04T11:31:00.826-05:00After three weeks of very disciplined, but not low...After three weeks of very disciplined, but not low-carb, dieting, I had lost nothing and was frustrated and hungry (FWIW, I'm 48, male). So, remaining committed to the goal, I bought "Why We Get Fat" from Riv and have been fascinated. After two days of very low carb intake, I dropped 4 pounds. Finding the discipline to eat this way will not be the hard part as I am not hungry. However, finding convenient food sources will be difficult as I have already discovered most accessible foods are LOADED with carbs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-66498764320969571632011-02-04T03:39:53.292-05:002011-02-04T03:39:53.292-05:00Chris: I'm fairly certain Taubes mentions that...Chris: I'm fairly certain Taubes mentions that people living mostly on starchy foods can be quite lean and healthy as long as they avoid the insulin resistance inducing sugars. I don't remember an exact quote, but it's in there.Uncle Anklenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1137932444332512502011-02-03T22:02:56.400-05:002011-02-03T22:02:56.400-05:00If you want a really good shaving soap, try The Ge...If you want a really good shaving soap, try The Gentleman's Quarter (http://www.thegentlemensquarter.com/), made in West Virginia.<br /><br />On the diet topic, I think it's worth noting that there is no single diet that is best for everyone. There is a wide range of digestive capabilities -- for example, many people are intolerant of lactose or wheat gluten. Those are substances that humans have only recently (evolutionarily speaking) evolved to digest. What was once the most nutritionally appropriate diet for Man is not necessarily the most nutritionally sound diet for everyone today (especially when there is so much corn masquerading as beef, chicken, and pork).Merlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13350335129704993638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-37413972636777687222011-02-03T20:21:36.320-05:002011-02-03T20:21:36.320-05:00All this talk of prices is pretty tacky. That bein...All this talk of prices is pretty tacky. That being said, I would really love to see the VO operation open up a branch on the west coast.<br /><br />The wife and I plan to visit Riv headquarters this summer to test out/buy a Betty Foy. I'm really excited because I've never been to Riv--it'll be nice to see so many gorgeous bikes in one place. Moreover, I think visiting will be enjoyable because of the number of like minded people working at Riv--good people.<br /><br />How cool would it be to have some of the VO folks over here in California?? I think it would be beneficial to have a business like VO in this neck of the woods.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-28364539931516743132011-02-03T17:58:38.399-05:002011-02-03T17:58:38.399-05:00Until this past summer, I had only ridden through ...Until this past summer, I had only ridden through SLO and while I liked what I saw of the town and a small bit of surrounding riding terrain, it was hardly enough to go on to judge the place. Last summer I rode the Central Coast 1000km that the Santa Cruz Randonneurs put on, and we saw quite a bit more off SLO. I really would like to go back and do a lot more riding there.rob hawkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10884613886419587605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-89324339868953995482011-02-03T17:30:38.286-05:002011-02-03T17:30:38.286-05:00Anon, Nutritional practices based on what Oprah do...Anon, Nutritional practices based on what Oprah does? Sorry, never seen the show.<br /><br />Every bit of science shows that humans evolved as carnivores. There has never been a vegan, or even a vegetarian, ancient culture. It's one thing to be a vegan because you believe it to be moral. We can certainly respect and even admire those principles. But it's another thing to convince us that it's healthier.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49974436594680652002011-02-03T17:14:18.784-05:002011-02-03T17:14:18.784-05:00if you are really feeling adventurous and not mere...if you are really feeling adventurous and not merely primitive, why not try going vegan? even oprah and her staff are trying it this week. it's easy; it's better for your health and for the planet. but, most important, it's the morally right thing to do. and yes, SLO is one of the most wonderful places in the US.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-23689909016354958902011-02-03T17:02:19.121-05:002011-02-03T17:02:19.121-05:00oops - on the above post where I mention syndrome ...oops - on the above post where I mention syndrome X. I left out the part that led to diagnosis: though reducing calories and increasing exercise she gained weight, which led to her being sent to specialist for diagnosis. So, we believe calories in/calories out (if effort or fuel) but there is evidence that its not that simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-27047859014488778462011-02-03T15:45:37.146-05:002011-02-03T15:45:37.146-05:00Something is in the air. This year one of my resol...Something is in the air. This year one of my resolutions was to question my long-held assumptions. I ended up reading the new Taubes book and the Primal Diet a couple of weeks ago. Eye-opening and making me re-think what I *know*. Low and behold both you and Grant at Riv are talking about this as well.<br />Growing up with the "balanced diet" and partitioned plate (green/veggies, starch/rice/potato/roll, and a protein) its conceptually hard to accept a balanced meal missing that middle part.<br />And the calories in/calories out is another bit of conventional wisdom that is hard to not believe. Because we all *know* that its "true"...but... I know someone with syndrome X that was diagnosed after she started exercising MORE and eating fewer calories.<br />On the sustainability side of things, on the East Coast at least, this way of eating (feeding animals grass and hay, not needing grains, and smaller amounts of vegetables and fruits in season) is probably more sustainable. You would not be depended on a food supply created with large amounts of chemicals and industrial effort that is then processed and shipped out. Note, even though it seems like a lot of protein, overall the amount that you eat would be physically less.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com