tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post4297699583541221925..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: An Economical Wide-Range Double CrankVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16259716089586732702009-12-26T23:21:27.209-05:002009-12-26T23:21:27.209-05:00How about this from RBW -- $114:
http://www.rivbi...How about this from RBW -- $114:<br /><br />http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/sugino-xd2-quickbeam/12-266Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03423618969569140035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-67049799490424288462009-12-14T04:27:15.466-05:002009-12-14T04:27:15.466-05:00This combination is perfect. I've been using a...This combination is perfect. I've been using a 46/28 combination on my road bike for over a year now. My touring/commuting bike and my cyclocross bikes each have 42/26 combinations, all with 10-speed cassettes with either 11- or 12-tooth small cogs and 25- to 28-tooth large cogs. I like the name "super compact double" for these cranksets. <br /><br />I use the inner and middle positions of a 74/130 triple cranksets for all of these, and only worry about a chainguard on the tourer/commuter. I'd love to get one or more reasonably priced double cranksets that can take these combinations. You talk about the possibility of a 74/110 double, but why not a 74/130 double? I can't imagine anyone needing smaller than a 38 tooth in the outer position, so why use a 110 BCD for this?<br /><br />Any more news of the crankset shown in this blog posting:<br />http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2009/03/taipei-cycle-show-update-3.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56097989053995211802009-10-02T13:40:37.348-04:002009-10-02T13:40:37.348-04:00Coming a little late to this discussion, but why w...Coming a little late to this discussion, but why wouldn't an outer 46 work in the middle position, paired with an inner 28 or so?<br /><br />And what do you think is the biggest reasonable drop assuming the use of a friction bar end shifter? Ideally I would probably run a 46 and 24, but that may be too much. On my tandem, I run a 24, 44, 54 triple (it's a road tandem with 26" wheels and 7 speed cassette, so the wide range is really welcome) and shifting from the 44 to the 24 works, but isn't great (chainrings are unpinned)Gernothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02751144419732423395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47915626267384362602009-08-13T17:28:46.928-04:002009-08-13T17:28:46.928-04:00I've wanted a really nice 46/30 type double fo...I've wanted a really nice 46/30 type double for ages. What I do, instead, is use a triple, but the outer and middle rings I leave very closely spaced--48/42 or such--and then use a 28 or 30 for the inner. That way I've got all sorts of options, and not trying to force a properly "triple" crank to be a double, just for the sake of it. Until there's a true 74 BCD double crankset on the market, I don't see the point of going to all the effort to turn a 110/74 into a wide-range double...Mykohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01699256384449161375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-60054316794678993112009-07-24T15:17:01.789-04:002009-07-24T15:17:01.789-04:00I'd be fine if I could get them in 180mm or 18...I'd be fine if I could get them in 180mm or 185mm arm lengths.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16086994541927386790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-26545043514827860782009-06-27T19:10:58.410-04:002009-06-27T19:10:58.410-04:00I was recently thinking of doing exactly what you ...I was recently thinking of doing exactly what you proposed in this posting. I have an XD triple 46/36/24and almost never use the middle ring. But as I thought about it and the ideal chainring potentials I got to thinking why nobody has thought of manufacturing a 110/74 double. This would seem a natural successor to those TA style cranks and allow for limitless gearing options, especially for those who don't fret about flawless shifting.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12939036521712853167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36960708298949494292009-05-11T23:14:00.000-04:002009-05-11T23:14:00.000-04:00Glad to read your feedback, IK. Looks like there ...Glad to read your feedback, IK. Looks like there are some things about crank geometry that I need to understand better! I'll have to compare some cranks with different Q's so I can get the gist of what the differences really are...SARENnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-78542462288776754782009-05-11T13:19:00.000-04:002009-05-11T13:19:00.000-04:00Low Q double crank with a 5-arm 86 mm or 94 mm BCD...Low Q double crank with a 5-arm 86 mm or 94 mm BCD would hit a ripe market. Rings are available, although a bit pricey.<br />White Industries are on the right track with their VBC. TA Carmina is bloody expensive. Middleburn have a road version of their RS7 in the works, but have been very quiet about if for some 2 years now.<br /><br />SAREN's idea of machining out a triple to turn it into a double is only a half-solution because:<br />1. The Q-factor is unchanged (still a triple)<br />2. The chainline is way off.<br />This could be addressed by using a shorter BB, but then the clearance between crankarms and chaninstays may be compromised.<br />All in all, too much hassle.<br /><br />The suggested Oxale 2 of Stronglight's is a MTB triple, and as such has a very wide Q-factor. No BB could bring it to a road double chainline and/or Q-factor.IKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56836169228471406222009-05-10T02:50:00.000-04:002009-05-10T02:50:00.000-04:00This discussion got me thinking, and my will to ti...This discussion got me thinking, and my will to tinker and mess things up began to take over as I was looking at a spare triple I had lying around. It seems it could be fairly easily modified to create a lower-Q wide double than the Sugino with guard... <br /><br />You could first machine off the inner standoffs that space the granny away from the middle ring, so that the new mounting surface is flush with where the middle ring used to be. Then, if needed you could deepen and re-tap the granny mounting holes, but at least on the crank I was looking at, it seemed it would be ok as is. Then just mount the small ring as normal with spacers, and put a big ring outside...<br /><br />Can anyone comment on whether this would work? Or would the reduction in Q be too slight to notice and too little for all the trouble?SARENnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-89017049613124733812009-05-10T00:03:00.000-04:002009-05-10T00:03:00.000-04:00Greetings,
If the chainguard had the triangular cu...Greetings,<br />If the chainguard had the triangular cutouts similiar to the chainrings and "appeared" to be a chainring....that would solve the appearance for me.Kilroynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-26567731667564726942009-05-09T15:51:00.000-04:002009-05-09T15:51:00.000-04:00can i remove the chainguard?can i remove the chainguard?no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14499363491460637950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-7707729877294089272009-05-09T14:23:00.000-04:002009-05-09T14:23:00.000-04:00Greetings,
By introducing a triangular cutout in t...Greetings,<br />By introducing a triangular cutout in the chainguard similiar to the chainring, and thus making a "pseudo-chainring", you will have more desirable chainguard.Kilroynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-9681880831261067712009-05-09T10:24:00.000-04:002009-05-09T10:24:00.000-04:00You guys can continue the mental gymnastics about ...You guys can continue the mental gymnastics about what is better. Me, I just ride, and I love my triple. I'm a just a small, upper middle-aged, and not totally healthy man, and I have to say, I use my 50 big ring quite regularly, on downhills, relative flats with tailwinds, etc. Surely, you big, strong guys must find a 46 somewhat limiting.<br /><br />I use my middle 40 ring a lot, and I use the 30 inner ring when I'm climbing something without trying to set any records. In between those things, I really, and I mean really appreciate the close ratios. They allow me to keep my rides very finely tuned with almost no double shifting, and all this together helps me make the most of my limited abilities - either in relation to speed or endurance.<br /><br />Just me, but I can't imagine why people who profess to be randonneuring types would scoff at triples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32919012360031270692009-05-09T02:29:00.000-04:002009-05-09T02:29:00.000-04:00Tom, I think what _might_ be turning people off to...Tom, I think what _might_ be turning people off to the guard in the photos is the photography. The flash seems to have diminished the appearance of any defining surface contours of the shape.<br /><br />But for contrast, the steel Zeus guard mentioned above ( http://micurl.com/v20ift ) appears gossamer and finely detailed compared to the apparent amorphousness of the Sugino. A case perhaps where the stronger yet heavier metal is well employed.SARENnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-52016249311180371052009-05-08T22:00:00.000-04:002009-05-08T22:00:00.000-04:00Speaking only for myself, the "bash guard" comment...Speaking only for myself, the "bash guard" comment was more in line with the aesthetic than the application. It's not a terrible looking chainguard but it's nothing special either. Something more along the lines of a nice, open, lean and light chainring, minus the the teeth, would be most welcome. Look at the Zeus guard that I posted earlier, lose the drillium and make it about the size of a 40 tooth chainring, now we're talking. Oh yeah, make one closer to 46 as well for all the burly dudes. I guess I'm old and slow at the ripe age of 36 but I don't need anything larger than 36 up front with an 11 or 12 cog on the cassette (!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-16581131262292669342009-05-08T13:42:00.000-04:002009-05-08T13:42:00.000-04:00What 'wide/fat/ungainlyness' are you all speaking ...What 'wide/fat/ungainlyness' are you all speaking of with regards to the guard in the photo?<br /><br />Cyclocross guards are generally a thinner aluminum sheet (1.5-3mm) and not at all like the 6-12mm thick bashguards used on DH bikes. The Sugino guard on that chainring is 1.5mm thick at the bolt tabs and the ring itself. You can't get any thinner than that without it being tin foil. <br /><br />Also, we do sell the guard right now. There are 2 versions: 44-46 and 48-50t with a 110 bcd.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-76753738233011130022009-05-08T11:26:00.000-04:002009-05-08T11:26:00.000-04:00I purchased one of the beautiful Sugino cranksets ...I purchased one of the beautiful Sugino cranksets from you. 48-36-26 I would not trade my middle ring for a chain guard, and i'd rather have a 26 tooth granny ring than a 30. If i want a compact double I'd set up a 50-34 and use a wider cassette in back.Reynolds531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61829677265912113562009-05-08T10:21:00.000-04:002009-05-08T10:21:00.000-04:00One thing to keep in mind here is the application ...One thing to keep in mind here is the application that Chris is primarily addressing - city bike, which in its full incarnation means upright riding, street clothes, short hop riding at moments notice with max convenience.<br /><br />In that case, there is something to be said for a chain-guard rather than leg-band or trouser tuck. I think the Sugino chainguard is a little ungainly, but it has potential with some shine, engraving or other detailing.<br /><br />Similarly, a double where the rider is almost always on the larger ring simplifies life a lot.<br /><br />Other posters have pointed out various limitations of this configuration, but I think that this is a pretty good solution for the stated purpose. It certainly isn't being put forth as something one should use for all modes of riding.<br /><br />Another competing solution for this scenario is a double with chainguard and internal gear hub rear. IMO, that is a lot better city bike configuration, but has the considerable downside of significantly greater cost.robatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641711964135698976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34415281805851882822009-05-08T04:22:00.000-04:002009-05-08T04:22:00.000-04:00I must object to the idea that Q-factor is not sig...I must object to the idea that Q-factor is not significant. For the people who are sensitive to it, it can be quite a pain. I for one would have no use for a "Wide Double" as described. <br /><br />The first time I rode a bike with a low-Q crank, (a vintage Fuji S10S), it was a revelation. Ever since, I'm well aware that my triple-equipped general rider is unsuited to my narrow-hipped anatomy, and I wish for a true (narrow) wide-range double most every ride.<br /><br />So I'm saving my pennies till VO or another maker comes out with that crank. Till then I guess I'll just be hipped and cranky... ; )SARENnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47943009006563147382009-05-07T23:59:00.000-04:002009-05-07T23:59:00.000-04:00That guard is too big. Perhaps a smaller one for ...That guard is too big. Perhaps a smaller one for people who wanted a guard.<br /><br />Otherwise, what I'd thought to do was to cut off sections of the 53 tooth sprocket to act as the washers, and so that I could just use the regular lenght nuts/bolts. Then I'd have a 42 tooth single sprocket. If I wanted, I could add a 28t granny sprocket. This is to a Sugino XD double.<br /><br />But, then, I've got a PX 42/28 and am blissfully happy. I don't have to look around for the middle sprocket while shifting. It's easy! It's light!<br /><br />I hope your own wide range Velo-orange project gets off the ground- It's too bad Sugino threw out the forging mold!<br /><br />GarthGarthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-44390139945779745992009-05-07T20:08:00.000-04:002009-05-07T20:08:00.000-04:00i just added a 24 to my girlfriend's mountain cran...i just added a 24 to my girlfriend's mountain crank, which was previously running a sole 42. I find the wide double to be more elegant than the triple, personally. unfortunately, she is not an extremely skilled rider and has trouble managing the large shift. someday.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00219872477832400734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-84655356821826336632009-05-07T18:35:00.000-04:002009-05-07T18:35:00.000-04:00Guard was the first thing that caught my eye. Wou...Guard was the first thing that caught my eye. Would defenitely buy this. Would preffer for it to look a look a little more retro. Perhaps something that would blend easily into a late 60's to early eighties rand/road bike.<br /><br />Will be checking your site till it goes on sale!! <br /><br />Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-70930026965950716892009-05-07T18:07:00.000-04:002009-05-07T18:07:00.000-04:00The AT that I referenced has no curves - dead stra...The AT that I referenced has no curves - dead straight arms! <br />So there! <br />;)<br /><br />Also, I like the suggestion a few comments above of just offering an elegant chain guard for the outer ring instead of this proposed Sugino double with that chunky bash guard. It would be much less expensive for folks to try out and most of us have an old triple in the parts bin. If not, they are easy to come by. 15 seconds of searching uncovered this:<br />http://micurl.com/v20ift<br />Not a bad start!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-29793739970570269302009-05-07T17:15:00.000-04:002009-05-07T17:15:00.000-04:00"Good looks are subjective - I find that WI crank ..."Good looks are subjective - I find that WI crank to be real eyesore. I'd take a nice simple forged crank along the lines of a Sugino AT any day."<br /><br />Simple appears to also be subjective.<br /><br />The WI VBC is a true form follows function design. What you see is the gear wrought pure. Not unlike my favorite cranks from the golden era such as the TA Cyclotouriste. <br /><br />Most Sugino - along with most other designs today basically hide their function behind voluptuous metal curves.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-89686810449725889382009-05-07T13:45:00.000-04:002009-05-07T13:45:00.000-04:00I remember a nice Gilles Berthoud 94 BCD double cr...I remember a nice Gilles Berthoud 94 BCD double crank made by TA. "Rebelle"? Could be worth looking into.Uncle Anklenoreply@blogger.com