tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post375351003913956456..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Grumpy PostVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-67829155799509330012009-06-11T20:35:32.219-04:002009-06-11T20:35:32.219-04:00I'm not sure if this will make you grumpy, but...I'm not sure if this will make you grumpy, but until just a month ago you had the Basil Memphis Pannier's listed and I've been wanting to buy one. <br /><br />Now they're gone and I'm not sure if it's a temporary shortage or if you're not going to carry them anymore. <br /><br />If you've discontinued them then I'll buy them on the Web but I'd rather buy them from someone (relatively) local.<br /><br />Thanks.Patrick McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02897732985757059185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-86765346526349288182009-04-28T11:17:00.000-04:002009-04-28T11:17:00.000-04:00get offa my lawn!get offa my lawn!Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75089339306762118262009-04-27T18:02:00.000-04:002009-04-27T18:02:00.000-04:00david_nj said:
Garth, agreed that JPW is curmudgeo...david_nj said:<br /><I>Garth, agreed that JPW is curmudgeonly. Also, ordering things from his store is a major pain in the neck. Lastly, one time, I purchased a wheel from him; it tacoed on the first ride and he refused to stand behind it!<br /></I>My experience couldn't be more different. I find Peter wonderful to deal with, and buying things from his store is as easy as buying from Velo Orange. I have two sets of wheels of his, both at around 10,000 mi and both perfect, never needed even the slightest touch of a spoke wrench.<br /><br />What makes a wheel taco on the first ride?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-18998936125740257522009-04-26T17:06:00.000-04:002009-04-26T17:06:00.000-04:00I posted this earlier:
"I believe I once emailed ...I posted this earlier:<br /><br />"I believe I once emailed you about getting a fork. It is very difficult to find a good, steel replacement fork! In fact I never did find one. That frame is still forkless, hanging sadly in my shed, unusable."<br /><br />I am not the same "Anon" who posted more about forks later, though I too understand geometric trail, rake, etc. I certainly have no ill feelings toward Chris for not selling just a fork by itself. In fact he was just one of many people I contacted at the time trying to find a decent fork, and I've bought plenty of products from VO since then and will continue to do so, with enthusiasm! <br /><br />The original fork on this particular bike had an average trail measurement, but heaps of tire clearance at the crown. The aftermarket forks I found at the time all had very little clearance. Not only would this have prevented me from using the tires I wanted and fenders of any sort, but it would have also increased the already steep head angle even more. I should also add that I feel a high-rake fork would have likely improved the stability of this bike's handling, particularly with a handlebar bag which I had planned to use on it. Not matter though, because shortly after that I found a high end early 80s touring bike that worked out considerably nicer than the other bike would have. It even has a mere 38mm of trail. :D Although I do still have a decent frame longing for a nice fork hanging in my barn. ;)<br /><br />-BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-24303852131648335472009-04-25T18:11:00.000-04:002009-04-25T18:11:00.000-04:00Dear Chris,
Sorry to hear about your grumpytimes....Dear Chris,<br /><br />Sorry to hear about your grumpytimes.<br /><br />I won't add to your vexations by asking for a fork. I understand why you do not want to sell them. <br /><br />I was however wondering if you would think about just selling us the VO frames unpainted and without ANY braze-ons ? Then none of us oh-so-picky customers would get their panties all in a knot over such incredibly important details like the chainstay cable stop braze-ons, or the make-or-break / all-or-nothing decision-killing downtube stops and /or headtube extensions. <br /><br />You could be like Cino Cinelli and tell everyone that braze-ons might potentially cause weak points on the frame. In order to satisfy everyone you could simply have a variety of clamp-on cable stops and guides made so that the BUYER can make all of the AGONIZINGLY difficult decisions such as full cable housing for the rear brake, or two cable stops. <br /><br />Think about how much better this might work and how much it might improve the "customer experience".<br />It would also be easier for the factory and you because there would be less to go wrong with the fabrication. And just like back in the 1970's and 80's, when the customer takes her bike to eventually get re-painted THEN they can get any and all braze-ons done exactly as they want them. No more knotted up panties for VO customers, and you'll make a fortune on selling replacement decals and cable stops. Charge the same as a full painted and brazed-on one. Oh hell, charge MORE for giving them less - (J)IvyLeague Business Schools will fall all over themselves trying to award you an honarary MBA. <br /><br />It's a big WIN-WIN for everyone !<br />Please cue up that old Devo song: "Freedom of Choice" in the background !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-14586109380275133542009-04-24T17:05:00.000-04:002009-04-24T17:05:00.000-04:00"Some of the products that I adored have simply di..."Some of the products that I adored have simply disappeared."<br /><br />David: I have been here pretty much from the beginning. <br /><br />The NOS stuff disappeared. Well within reason. The factories that made the NOS stuff are either closed or changed markedly since their glory days. How could VO get more when sources do not exist?<br /><br />The Amish baskets are no more, but my understanding is the family that made them could no longer ship.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-33952248544286640402009-04-24T17:02:00.000-04:002009-04-24T17:02:00.000-04:00My experience with PJW have been quite positive. ...My experience with PJW have been quite positive. <br /><br />PJW's is a small operation. PJW is the primary U.S. supplier for several high end German light companies, Pitlock, Tout bicycles, and a couple other items.<br /><br />Along with individual customer orders, PJW handles local bike store orders, maintenance questions and warranty issues. <br /><br />I guess he could Bike Nashbar and hire minimum wage internet correspondents to sell volume generic stuff. The minimum wage kids could give a swell 'buyer experience' (whatever the heck that is) but the buyer would just be getting junk everyone else has.<br /><br />As it is, I appreciate the unique items he has sold to me, and the assistance he has provided my LBS with lighting and bike security issues.<br /><br />I guess we would need details on the broken wheel, as PJW's site insists they come with a life time warranty.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61050268436709943452009-04-24T15:22:00.000-04:002009-04-24T15:22:00.000-04:00In defense of PJW, it does say on his site that th...In defense of PJW, it does say on his site that the telephone is the best way to place an order. I've ordered from them twice, by phone, and both times it was pleasant and very easy.Ian Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14721391514711042385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90444736470833533182009-04-24T13:31:00.000-04:002009-04-24T13:31:00.000-04:00Garth, agreed that JPW is curmudgeonly. Also, ord...Garth, agreed that JPW is curmudgeonly. Also, ordering things from his store is a major pain in the neck. Lastly, one time, I purchased a wheel from him; it tacoed on the first ride and he refused to stand behind it! That wasn't my favorite phone call.<br /><br />I totally agree that it is the experience as much as the product. That even pertains to VO. Or so it seems to me. Some of the products that I adored have simply disappeared. It was fun that people could write in and basically have things custom made for them, like that fellow with the collar for his track bike. While initially I found it very sweet to join in the experience, I guess one inevitable price of growth is that it has become a bit more generic -- the products don't seem to stand nearly as far from the mainstream as they once did. I could be wrong; it's just a feeling. And I well understand that it is almost impossible to keep that feeling in a rapid growth environment.Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-41095728145495349212009-04-24T00:23:00.000-04:002009-04-24T00:23:00.000-04:00I like Jeff Lyon's website.
I was glad to see Chr...I like Jeff Lyon's website.<br /><br />I was glad to see Chris get grumpy and did not take it personally.<br /><br />James Mallon has a valid point, and quite frankly, I'd like to see a requirement that people use their names.<br /><br />I order things for my ancient Volkswagen and will occasionally ask for certain unlisted parts. Sometimes they have them, or reference my in the correct direction.<br /><br />Being a teacher, I certainly become annoyed with parents, but find it unprofessional to rant at them.<br /><br />Sure, it's Chris's website, business, blog- or is it? Doe the tree falling in the forest make a noise if no one is there?<br /><br />Everyone has a right to be grumpy every once in a while, but don't expect too many people to come to your party if it's a regular thing. (not saying it is...)<br /><br />Thing is, people don't just buy stuff for the object, they buy stuff for the experience. So, I like to think of this whole thing as mutually participative. Which, I think is a big reason Chris started it.<br /><br />I recently wrote Jon Peter White the twentieth an email and received a rather slightly curmudgeon response. I've yet to finish the order.<br /><br />Let's get rid of anonymous posting and check the egos!<br /><br />GarthGarthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-86799443036980504802009-04-23T12:29:00.000-04:002009-04-23T12:29:00.000-04:00Perhaps, if Rivendell refers people to Peter White...Perhaps, if Rivendell refers people to Peter White for lights, VO could just refer people to some place for forks! Seems like a lot of grumping is revolving around forks. <br /><br />Hey, can I totally hijack the thread and talk of happy things: since VO doesn't offer the Coast/bespoke randonneuse frames any more, I was thinking of having one made up by Jeff Lyon. Anyone have any experience there?Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-76849320306370906932009-04-23T12:23:00.000-04:002009-04-23T12:23:00.000-04:00I crumpled a Berthoud front fender - these are pre...I crumpled a Berthoud front fender - these are pretty stout - some years ago when one of those dreadful sticks flipped into the spokes, did a jamup against the stays and brought everything to a fairly abrupt halt.<br /><br />The bike wasn't going anywhere without setting up an impromptu metal shop, beating/bending stuff back into place.<br /><br />Although I've had a couple of incidents, I think the risk is overstated - I'm a lot more worried about getting creamed by a motor vehicle or wiping out on some surprise gravel/sand, and other hazards. <br /><br />Nonetheless, there is probably a good case for some sort of quick release/breakaway device so long as it doesn't add lots of complexity, cost alot, substantially diminish the fender form/function, or introduce other failure modes.<br /><br />Chris proposes not tightening clamps too hard. I'm ambivalent about this solution - I like any fender nuts/bolts to be firmly snugged down to prevent anything vibrating loose. Losing fender hardware on a ride is at best an annoyance and a suddenly loose fender flopping around could cause other more serious problems. I suppose if you run a stud from the inside of the eyelet and use nyloc nuts, that would work.<br /><br />Another thing that helps is to try to set your fender clearance so that it does not decrease, if possible increases slightly, in the direction of wheel rotation. That way, if something is small enough to make it through the entry portal, it is less likely to become jammed and will tend to be swept out by the wheel rotation. This definitely reduces the incidence of irritating leaves/twigs, at a minimum.<br /><br />One more recommendation is that if you are riding where you really depend on the bike to get you home, pack enough tools so that you can completely remove a mangled fender. Just a few small items that are generally useful elsewhere, might not need them for years, but pretty invaluable when you do.<br /><br />The other credible fender failure mode is fatigue. During routine maintenance, it is worth giving your fenders a little scrutiny once in a while around the mounting points, see if any cracks are developing.<br /><br />None of this is anything to get in a real lather about, but if you do a lot of unpaved riding probably warrants a little extra attention.<br /><br />And I agree w/banning anonymous users and hats off to Chris to giving the public an unvarnished look inside the sausage factory. <br /><br />As a closing thought on flame wars, one general principle that is often ignored by interwebs users is, "never argue with an idiot because people watching may not be able to tell the difference".robatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641711964135698976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-33698233943679410162009-04-23T11:40:00.000-04:002009-04-23T11:40:00.000-04:00Here's a picture of the SKS breakaway clip: http:...Here's a picture of the SKS breakaway clip: http://www.sks-germany.com/images/product/rimg3/rimg3_Chromo3.jpg<br /><br />Basically, it's a plastic wedge with a couple of holes for the fender stays and a hole for the screw attaching it to the fork eyelet. The stays are just stuck into the holes in the plastic wedge, and are held in by friction. If the fender is pulled backwards, the stays come out of the clip.<br /><br />Probably the most use you'll make of such a thing is when mounting the bike on a roof rack of the type that has a long tray connecting the front and rear attachments. Fenders always interfere with those trays, and with a breakaway clip you can unhook the stays and pull the fender out of the way.<br /><br />It won't work with metal fenders; on the other hand, you generally don't need them with metal fenders, since the fender is stiff enough to resist crumpling if a stick does get in there.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1468740169665673932009-04-23T11:29:00.000-04:002009-04-23T11:29:00.000-04:00Man, there's no question: get rid of the anonymous...Man, there's no question: get rid of the anonymous comment option. if you post anonymously, you are the poster child for cowardice. it's basically internet road rage: you honk, swear, then speed away before anyone can have anything even remotely resembling human contact with you. why would you even want to be any more anonymous than we already are in this computer-world we've created!<br /><br />hats off to you grumpy Chris, not only do you reveal yourself, but you write your own, deeply felt opinions. even if people don't like them, it's a hell of a lot more transparency than they will ever get from any other company. i for one enjoy the commentary.<br /><br />but seriously people: i'm stressing out about my fenders. can someone please explain exactly what these breakaway clips are and where i can get them? i've got planet bike freddy fenders on the bike now. i loosened up the stay-securing nuts as chris suggested so that hopefully the stays will pull out and let the fender move up and away from the tire in an emergency. I also thought to myself: that plastic brake-bridge bracket on the back fender might work on the front to be more likely to break than the metal bracket that is currently there. Maybe I can get another one of those?NatMcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-63369889252323363642009-04-23T11:09:00.000-04:002009-04-23T11:09:00.000-04:00"The list was shut down soon thereafter, and I sus..."The list was shut down soon thereafter, and I suspect it was because that was preferable to kicking out a Riv dealer."<br /><br />Interesting spin. To this day, the Riv site refers would be bike lighting customers to Peter White.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82176861079428149492009-04-23T11:07:00.000-04:002009-04-23T11:07:00.000-04:00oops, meant to say hording.oops, meant to say hording.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-44656197407541827362009-04-23T11:05:00.000-04:002009-04-23T11:05:00.000-04:00Jamesmallon:
Still not buying your take on this. ...Jamesmallon:<br /><br />Still not buying your take on this. <br /><br />As the blog entry says, Chris is not responding to a one off request. Rather he gets these all the times.<br /><br />VO does not advertise forks for sale. Seems a stretch to expect someone just is willing to take on a whole line of business on the basis of an e-mail.<br /><br />Likewise with the NOS. As I said above, I was lucky enough to get some NOS from VO back in the day. VO is a lot bigger operation than those days. Moreover, there is a lot less NOS stuff out there. As much as I like adding to my collection of vintage bike hardware, it never occurs to me that perhaps VO would be willing to surrender that piece they are harding if ask in just the right way. <br /><br />It stands to reason a merchant will get annoyed at some point if people keep asking for items the merchant does not sell.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-59055885103358894912009-04-23T10:54:00.000-04:002009-04-23T10:54:00.000-04:00I have not purchased anything from Peter White sin...I have not purchased anything from Peter White since he made a flaming ass of himself on the old Riv list. I was not involved, only a lurker, but it was disgusting. The list was shut down soon thereafter, and I suspect it was because that was preferable to kicking out a Riv dealer. Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90795142793859168652009-04-23T10:13:00.000-04:002009-04-23T10:13:00.000-04:00So sorry I needed a new steel fork for my steel bi...So sorry I needed a new steel fork for my steel bike that came with a carbon fork. So sorry I wanted to throw more business your way; I have made several previous orders. So sorry I'd ask for parts you used to carry, because I thought I'd give you some money for them if, like other shops, you often had old things about the shop.<br /><br />So sorry I've taken you out of my bookmarked shops, because your attitude to customers is too haughty to put up with.jamesmallonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-7970422213611917682009-04-23T10:10:00.000-04:002009-04-23T10:10:00.000-04:00Garth:
Chicago is not yet Portland with a custom ...Garth:<br /><br />Chicago is not yet Portland with a custom bike builder on every corner, but there are at least two that I can think of.<br /><br />Chicago bike owners considering a new fork may be well advised to look one up and bring the bike by in person.<br /><br />To Chris' point, a competent builder who can actually see the bike and rider will be in a better position to judge the appropriate angle and trail of the custom fork.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-60340149850522773932009-04-23T09:25:00.000-04:002009-04-23T09:25:00.000-04:00Chris,
Let me cast a vote for something that with...Chris,<br /><br />Let me cast a vote for something that without a doubt you must have considered... get rid of the anonymous comment option. I want to say "Seriously, come on guys", but its never gonna stop. <br /><br />I enjoy the opinions and reading the good and bad, but you owe nothing to someone who can't sign their name to their words.<br /><br />Cheers and Thank you,<br /><br />PL.Lindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06062128680421865189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-6182479648590718362009-04-23T09:09:00.000-04:002009-04-23T09:09:00.000-04:00Anonyme,
I wasn't arguing for tight fender cleara...Anonyme,<br /><br />I wasn't arguing for tight fender clearances, just describing one common failure mode. I agree with the standard clearance prescriptions and having good clearance does prevent some problems, both large and minor.<br /><br />But you do make a point that riding with a fender does increase some the risk of some hazards on a bike. OTOH, it may reduce others by reducing wear and tear on the bike, rider fatigue by being sprayed by water for 50 miles, etc.<br /><br />These days, our society tends to go berzerk over the most minor of risks. This is no reason for most people to shun fenders, it isn't at the risk level of the first wave at Tarawa or anything.<br /><br />Just avoid riding over road debris, and you'll be ok.robatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641711964135698976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-9089572507864174582009-04-23T09:07:00.000-04:002009-04-23T09:07:00.000-04:00I am not a big fan anymore of the GP tone in blogs...I am not a big fan anymore of the GP tone in blogs. VO can be a pleasant experience of the interpersonal civility of exchange in the best retail stores when communicating face-to-face. <br /><br />This series of comments includes some of the more confrontational and personal comments I have seen--ones that are closer to the abrasive anonymity that seems the net norm. Perhaps that norm has an inevitable gravitational pull, but I enjoy VO's blog most for its norm subverting civility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-3180817389965393802009-04-23T08:08:00.000-04:002009-04-23T08:08:00.000-04:00I agree with Robatsu. After all, one could argue t...I agree with Robatsu. After all, one could argue that tight spacing between tire and fender could actually prevent larger objects (likely to cause bigger problems) from entering the fender well. The problem is not fender/tire spacing, but rather the fact of having a fender on the bike in the first place (especially over the front wheel). By the way, where does one find breakaway clips?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-7293312858797146622009-04-23T08:00:00.000-04:002009-04-23T08:00:00.000-04:00Chris said:
So please go buy a fork elsewhere. Obv...Chris said:<br /><I>So please go buy a fork elsewhere. Obviously your mountain bike mechanic and automotive experience give you the knowledge to choose wisely.<br /><br /></I>And in honor of the day, let me add this little amendment: "Get thee away, and take thy beagles with thee."Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.com