tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post1733141900032186917..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Bending Forks and Designing BoatsVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-67873125549140687422009-07-02T04:42:10.520-04:002009-07-02T04:42:10.520-04:00The forks in all the 3 photos don't look good....The forks in all the 3 photos don't look good. <br /><br />The first is the least worst, it has the bend lower down, which is good but then it's straight above the dropout, making it look like it's kinked.<br /><br />The second and third are just ugly, typical of any modern forks.<br /><br />It's quite simple; the bend should be a continous curve starting low down the fork blades, continuing all the way to the dropout without straightening out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62685878036888236362009-04-29T01:16:00.000-04:002009-04-29T01:16:00.000-04:00"It's a matter of the tubing wall thickness and di..."It's a matter of the tubing wall thickness and diameter. A tighter, lower bend requires a smaller diameter tube, which has to have thicker walls for the same strength. Is that correct, or is there more going on?"<br /><br />I'm not sure any of that is true. Frk tubing tends to be thick in the narrow bits anyway, since that is what happens to the wider stock when it is tapered, the wall thickness picks up, so most fork blades are like that.<br /><br />The lower bend can be made in any ocnceivable material, really, just a mater of the tooling.<br /><br />I don't think lower curves look better, unlike boats, water pressure and drag isn't going to sort this one out. It is mostly just a looks thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56290711287451284032009-04-26T18:19:00.000-04:002009-04-26T18:19:00.000-04:00Totally fair Hank. That being said, at least if t...Totally fair Hank. That being said, at least if the upcharge isn't ridiculous, it's worth it! For me it would be the difference between buying the bike and not. Without a correct fork bend, it's an also-ran; with one it's something special. Although I sure would like to see some centerpull brake bosses on there ...Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75761687855770460192009-04-24T10:32:00.000-04:002009-04-24T10:32:00.000-04:00To David NJ:
Try and get a factory that produces ...To David NJ:<br /><br />Try and get a factory that produces thousands of forks a year (and works on narrow profit margins) to create new tooling and change it's production methods to satisfy your order of 300 forks without having to pay a stiff premium for the privilege. Low pricing comes from being able to leverage the numbers of what factories are geared to produce. You want something special? no problem at all... for a price.Hank G.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-583180979953051152009-04-20T18:36:00.000-04:002009-04-20T18:36:00.000-04:00The 'in quantity' part of your statement is the on...The 'in quantity' part of your statement is the one that matters the most. 300 forks is not a large amount- it represents maybe 2 days for 3 workers in Taichung. Some factories do well with small runs of under 500 units. Others won't touch those projects because they don't make a nickel off it. If velo orange was selling 10,000 bikes with french style forks, it would be a different conversation. As it is now, we just can't snap our fingers, provide drawings, and wish them to be here in 3 months. i would not want to work with a supplier who could promise something like that anyway. those $70 widgets whipped up in 3 months from anonymous factories via alibaba give you no IP protection or quality assurance once it's on the boat. And forget about covering warranties when something does go wrong.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-10114454092172931552009-04-20T15:40:00.000-04:002009-04-20T15:40:00.000-04:00Timely blog post, relative to the new issue of Bic...Timely blog post, relative to the new issue of Bicycle Quarterly's latest issue:<br /><A HREF="http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html" REL="nofollow">Spring 2009 Issue</A>Article entitled:<br />Builders Speak: Making a Mandrel to bend fork blades, The challenge of getting a tight bend at the bottom of the blade.<br /><br />Send that article to your suppliers!keithwwalkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11808096138218041326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82595597981239349162009-04-20T14:03:00.000-04:002009-04-20T14:03:00.000-04:00Respectfully, I'm finding it a little hard to beli...Respectfully, I'm finding it a little hard to believe that these are harder to make in a production environment than on a bespoke basis. I mean if the designers at Toyota decide that they want a body panel curved a little differently, they call the plant, fiddle with the tooling, and start stamping the newer versions out. <br /><br />Isn't it just a matter of equipping them with the right mandrel? The press just goes whomp and bends it to that shape. End of story. I don't fancy that forks are hand-bent in a production environment, but even if they are, same deal.<br /><br />In my business we just submitted a detailed design for a rather complex electronic gadget to a bunch of Far East manufacturers, and in 24 hours we had several quotes emphasizing that we could have it any way we wanted it. Not a big dollar item; about US$70 each to manufacture to spec, in quantity. They all seem to understand full well that there's a lot of competition for business amongst manufacturers.<br /><br />All I'm saying is, let's get these forks made up the way we all want 'em! For sure, nothing is as easy as it should be in this world, and I readily concede that, but still.Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82232946856934426922009-04-20T12:39:00.000-04:002009-04-20T12:39:00.000-04:00Don't forget that what works for a custom frame bu...Don't forget that what works for a custom frame builder making 20 frames per year is often far too time consuming in a production environment. We order 300 frames and expect the factory to have them ready in 3 months. That time includes having the tubing drawn to order and painting and packing.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-37875158370063651732009-04-20T12:21:00.000-04:002009-04-20T12:21:00.000-04:00Here's an modern production bike that has a very n...<A HREF="http://www.redroseimports.com/Olmo_Classic.html" REL="nofollow"> Here</A>'s an modern production bike that has a very nice bend (IMHO), from Olmo.<br /><br />Rivendell has a description of what makes a good fork bend that agrees with most of us--radius continues to the end.Charliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076080703641893710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90656583168488707232009-04-20T09:31:00.000-04:002009-04-20T09:31:00.000-04:00btw: Gary Piantidosi is now taking his oar buildin...btw: Gary Piantidosi is now taking his oar building/sliding rigger making skills and constructing Pine Car Derby tracks. Quite the pleasant surprise when I saw one of his famous shipping boxes at my son's PCD event.dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196915510862112256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-68004453644421607972009-04-20T09:27:00.000-04:002009-04-20T09:27:00.000-04:00Ahh! Chesapeake Light Craft. Back in the late '7...Ahh! Chesapeake Light Craft. Back in the late '70's and through the '80's I was a competitive sculler. Still have a Staempfli racked behind the shed. I always thought about the idea of building a touring shell, and I think I even picked up some literature on those boats. Never enough time though...dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196915510862112256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-25567693438116292682009-04-20T00:20:00.000-04:002009-04-20T00:20:00.000-04:00You can obtain the visual quality of the tight fre...You can obtain the visual quality of the tight french curve all the drop out as long as the curve of the bending mandrel is right and you practice. No high tech tooling is needed. As far as ride quality the radius of the curve is only one factor. Wall thickness, diameter, and tubing shape are also as important in determining ride quality. This is the beauty of fork design...there are so many variables.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-35016246435841916012009-04-19T21:45:00.000-04:002009-04-19T21:45:00.000-04:00Live without beauty! How do you resist despair?Live without beauty! How do you resist despair?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-42036848027472574362009-04-19T21:44:00.000-04:002009-04-19T21:44:00.000-04:00Live without beauty! How do you resist despair?Live without beauty! How do you resist despair?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-68390139090696641612009-04-19T21:07:00.000-04:002009-04-19T21:07:00.000-04:00There is a very intersting thread on the Framebuil...There is a very intersting thread on the Framebuilders list at bikelist.org on this issue the past couple of days. Part of the problem may be a change in the way the fork blades are drawn. They may not be constant thickness, but rather thicker at the narrow part making bending that much harder. At one time Reynolds sold fork blades that were pre raked at the factory. I suspect the same may have been true of the Vitus and other French tubing manufacturers. Perhaps Pacenti or JPWeigle or someone like that could be persuaded to do some bending en masse.<br /><br />By the bye, the boat angle is Wherry Interesssting;}Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-66017671134412944282009-04-19T10:34:00.000-04:002009-04-19T10:34:00.000-04:00See you all at the annual st john's v USNA croquet...See you all at the annual st john's v USNA croquet match !!!!! Croquet is french, oui ?Drink Beernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47720276198239314072009-04-19T08:37:00.000-04:002009-04-19T08:37:00.000-04:00"You guys rely on too few sources for historical"
..."You guys rely on too few sources for historical"<br /><br />Pretty natural when you think of the history of European imports to the United States.<br /><br />Bike companies from France, England and Italy have long pursued the U.S. market. From the rest of Europe it was pretty much catch as catch can. <br /><br />English and Italian bikes - at least those that sold in big numbers in the U.S. - do the curve different than what Chris is looking for here. Had the Swiss, German, Spanish, Polish, etc. companies figured out a way to get their bikes to the U.S. in numbers, I am sure we would be calling it the Continental curve.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-79653623457416479772009-04-19T04:18:00.000-04:002009-04-19T04:18:00.000-04:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqHlfGk2Kcg
I ne...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqHlfGk2Kcg <br />I need a nancy french bender.Gene Huntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-59835165602562754682009-04-18T20:55:00.000-04:002009-04-18T20:55:00.000-04:00For want of the perfect bend a ride in the sunshin...For want of the perfect bend a ride in the sunshine was lost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-76831102251786556142009-04-18T20:44:00.000-04:002009-04-18T20:44:00.000-04:00Since we are talking about forks, is there any cha...Since we are talking about forks, is there any chance VO might one day sell aftermarket forks? I would really like to find a well made steel 700c fork with a 300mm threadless steer tube in 1" diameter. If it featured a nice looking crown, the kind of bend being discussed here, and eyelets on the dropouts, I might have to buy more than one. (Trail is unimportant to me.} It amazes me that such a thing seems very hard to find.Big & Tallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-57558028499950354502009-04-18T20:36:00.000-04:002009-04-18T20:36:00.000-04:00Even Toei took years to sort this out. The design...Even Toei took years to sort this out. The design of the mandrel that Hoshino built was something that he spent quite some time perfecting in search of the perfect bend...Andrew Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08917065225850153006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-84114573851687214542009-04-18T19:44:00.000-04:002009-04-18T19:44:00.000-04:00A lot of people, myself included, would assume tha...A lot of people, myself included, would assume that the tight and decreasing radius bend helps with bumb absorption, but I have to wonder how significant this is. I've never done an experiment with two otherwise identical bikes, differing only in rake radius (and not amount of rake). <br /><br />I'd also point out that this isn't a uniquely French thing, it appeared on all over western europe and become pretty common in the 40s at the same time that low trail became popular, again not just in France. You guys rely on too few sources for historical information.jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-72854959713877735062009-04-18T09:38:00.000-04:002009-04-18T09:38:00.000-04:00a production steel fork with a nice, elegant crown...a production steel fork with a nice, elegant crown, eyelets, and traditional blades? Does anyone remember how many decades we had to wait for that?<br /><br />Ok, so the bend doesn't look French, probably because it's not, but let's try to keep all this in perspective. <br />mwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-70593862026777863342009-04-17T21:01:00.000-04:002009-04-17T21:01:00.000-04:00A lot of the higher, wider radius, non-French styl...A lot of the higher, wider radius, non-French style bends, almost always end up straightening out for a ways before the dropout. This is one thing that makes the French ones so elegant, the continuous curve into the dropout.<br /><br /><A HREF="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wY1N3Qfbb4L-W-K2OzW00g?feat=directlink" REL="nofollow">Here</A> is an example of a wider radius curve that continues to the drop, with the radius of the curve increasing to where is is practically straight at the end. On the stop side, the curve also fades in, so there is none of the dogleg effect. It is pretty subtle. The frame is a 1972 Fuji Finest.<br /><br />I think that this sort of curve could be an alternate for those who don't like the low/tight French style.<br /><br />FWIW, I like the tighter French style as well.robatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641711964135698976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-20566339562213375632009-04-17T19:35:00.000-04:002009-04-17T19:35:00.000-04:00Is that the annapolis wherry, i've thought about b...Is that the annapolis wherry, i've thought about buying the build kit for a while now, beautiful boat.marcus17https://www.blogger.com/profile/15395980056363048843noreply@blogger.com