tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post1614843168533028915..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: My Pass HunterVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36441274313899228942008-07-01T22:13:00.000-04:002008-07-01T22:13:00.000-04:00Anomyne:I also have a bike with a Rohloff hub. I ...Anomyne:<BR/><BR/>I also have a bike with a Rohloff hub. I think the only drop outs one should use with the hub are OEM such as those made by Paragon.<BR/><BR/>You can get a Rohloff onto bikes with other dropouts, but it takes a lot of compromising.<BR/><BR/>Of course those Rohloff OEM dropouts are not going to be all that amenable to other hubs should I later get sick of the Rohloff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-42065127708291826792008-07-01T22:09:00.000-04:002008-07-01T22:09:00.000-04:00Steve:I was tired the night I wrote that having be...Steve:<BR/><BR/>I was tired the night I wrote that having been stuck on a path fixing a problem and got horizontal and vertical in my post. I guess I am an idiot.<BR/><BR/>The Trek is the 728 with traditional road horizontal drop outs. Getting the wheel off with fenders turned into a pain with out the right tools.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I also have a Hilsen with vertical drop outs and removing the wheel is no problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-86812551456248735132008-07-01T08:44:00.000-04:002008-07-01T08:44:00.000-04:00> unless you are running fixed gear, there is no r...> unless you are running fixed gear, there is no reason to run horizontals<BR/><BR/>There's also the possibility of hub gears, like the Rohloff. Yes, you can use a chain tensioner (which you can't for a fixed gear), but you probably don't really want a workaround like that on a semi-custom frame. On the other hand, if you want derailleur gears, you probably don't want your semi-custom frame compromised just in case someone wanted to use a Rohloff, and someone who does can buy a different bike.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-87704333459415645432008-06-30T19:12:00.000-04:002008-06-30T19:12:00.000-04:00joel said:At risk of belaboring a point, as stated...joel said:<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>At risk of belaboring a point, as stated above, horizontal drop outs are a very good choice on a bike meant for fenders.<BR/><BR/>I recently restored an '82 Trek 728 with the vertical Campy drop outs. The plan is to use the bike for touring, so I installed some sks fenders.<BR/><BR/>It was one thing installing the fenders on the work stand. Today I had a mishap while riding and had to remove the wheel. Ultimately I had to spend a lot of time and effort loosening the fender (not easy with the wheel in the way) before I could the wheel off.<BR/><BR/>This was on a lightly used area of a paved bike path on a gorgeous summer day. Had I been on a the shoulder of a highway in a down pour, I might have been tempted to abandon the bike and hitch a ride home.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Interesting. Not my experience at all. I currently have a Saluki and a VO Randonneur with vertical dropouts and fenders. I've also had in the past a Rambouillet, also with fenders and with vertical dropouts. <BR/><BR/>In all cases, open the QR, open the brakes, move the derailleur out of the way, the wheel drops right out.<BR/><BR/>I also have a Kogswell P/R with horizontal dropouts. With that bike, to get the back wheel in and out I have to deflate the tire. Same was true of the P-15 Paramount I used to own in the 70s and 80s, which also had horizontal dropouts.<BR/><BR/>It's actually not surprising it would be more difficult to get a wheel out with horizontal dropouts: to remove the wheel, the tire has to get closer to the seat tube and the fender. With vertical dropouts, it does not. <BR/><BR/>So my experience accords with a common sense view of how you'd expect things to work. I'm quite mystified that your experience is completely contrary to mine.<BR/><BR/>I'm also a bit puzzled by the reference to vertical Campy dropouts. Maybe I missed them along the way, but all the Campy dropouts I can remember seeing were horizontal.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-48339524204213612512008-06-28T23:24:00.000-04:002008-06-28T23:24:00.000-04:00At risk of belaboring a point, as stated above, ho...At risk of belaboring a point, as stated above, horizontal drop outs are a very good choice on a bike meant for fenders.<BR/><BR/>I recently restored an '82 Trek 728 with the vertical Campy drop outs. The plan is to use the bike for touring, so I installed some sks fenders. <BR/><BR/>It was one thing installing the fenders on the work stand. Today I had a mishap while riding and had to remove the wheel. Ultimately I had to spend a lot of time and effort loosening the fender (not easy with the wheel in the way) before I could the wheel off.<BR/><BR/>This was on a lightly used area of a paved bike path on a gorgeous summer day. Had I been on a the shoulder of a highway in a down pour, I might have been tempted to abandon the bike and hitch a ride home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-58414492301116160782008-06-26T13:46:00.000-04:002008-06-26T13:46:00.000-04:00I agree with Joel that if you're going to be snipp...I agree with Joel that if you're going to be snippy in your posts you should at least extend the courtesy of signing a name to your post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90253373616475984382008-06-25T23:10:00.000-04:002008-06-25T23:10:00.000-04:00Precisely Michael White.It is not the weld, lugs, ...Precisely Michael White.<BR/><BR/>It is not the weld, lugs, or even steel, that makes a fine bike fine. Rather it is the execution.<BR/><BR/>While the early lugged Treks are special, when they switched lugs around '84 or so, they started the long road down. <BR/><BR/>ANT, Sycip, Inglis, and now VO are doing some real nice TIG work. Jeff Jones (using Merlin to do the mfg. now) is making some real nice Titanium bikes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51740492624405266852008-06-25T22:35:00.000-04:002008-06-25T22:35:00.000-04:00SJB: There are threaded braze on's above the drop ...SJB: There are threaded braze on's above the drop outs. <BR/><BR/>VO racks are designed to attach at the top to the fender, so the hour glass braze on's beside the brake bridge are not necessary. <BR/><BR/>No need for a full on Tubus touring rack for a pass hunter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56934293129611301962008-06-25T22:31:00.000-04:002008-06-25T22:31:00.000-04:00Anonyme: Seems the nasty comments are always by p...Anonyme: Seems the nasty comments are always by people who do not use a regular name. Wonder why that is?<BR/><BR/>A good custom Tig welded bike will have a tube mix appropriate for the bike and rider, clean welds, carefully aligned brake posts, seamless braze ons. The cheap Taiwan steel bikes use whatever tubing costs less, often have mismatched posts, sloppy welds. Threaded posts tend be low quality and strip. <BR/><BR/>If you do not appreciate the difference, then it would seem you are wasting your time coming to VO, unless of course you consider annoying people who do appreciate the difference a good use of your time.<BR/><BR/>As for my earlier drop out comment, I must admit in my hurry I assumed the OP was wondering why not track fork ends. While my word usage was not accurate, context should have made my point obvious.<BR/><BR/>Curious that careful word choice is important to you, but careful build quality is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-48313861988854191992008-06-25T21:58:00.000-04:002008-06-25T21:58:00.000-04:00What about rear rack options?I don't see any braze...What about rear rack options?<BR/>I don't see any braze-ons.Sjbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818782738904584898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-3385807881851372092008-06-25T16:45:00.000-04:002008-06-25T16:45:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.AHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03122792478866813896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-59540540381065617912008-06-25T11:14:00.000-04:002008-06-25T11:14:00.000-04:00hmmm . . .well, I am not opening my wallet for bik...hmmm . . .<BR/><BR/>well, I am not opening my wallet for bikes very often these days, but still feel invested and interested in VO and its success. I would say that if a buyer feels the VO offers nothing of note over a Gunnar, then that buyer should buy a Gunnar. No need to apologize for that decision, Waterford makes tons of bikes and they do a good job too. Maybe a Gunnar is the very best frame for the money in the world! I wouldn't be surprised.<BR/><BR/>But I personally don't feel that way at all. My normal example of how good a tig'd steel bike can be is my Steelman, and it's the one I reach for over most of my lugged bikes. It really is that good. There are differences that transcend the obvious categories (such as lug vs tig, level vs. sloper, etc.)--not only transcend them, but render them irrelevant. I suspect that VO buyers are more into bikes like this: for whom the normal distinctions don't quite register.<BR/><BR/>I am very hopeful that practical, artful bikes can make it in a small corner of market, and that's why I root for VO. <BR/><BR/>best,<BR/><BR/>michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32594844642995460962008-06-25T09:43:00.000-04:002008-06-25T09:43:00.000-04:00@ Joel - So you're saying saying that some "semi-c...@ Joel - <BR/>So you're saying saying that some "semi-custom" TIG-welded and powder coated frame is a BMW?<BR/><BR/>Unless you have some kind of freakish body type that necessitates a custom frame, then I don't see how anyone could justify buying one of these. What does this frame offer that a number of other frames costing a fraction of this price don't? <A HREF="http://www.steelwoolbicycles.ca/frames/tweed.php" REL="nofollow">Vertical dropouts</A>? <A HREF="http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck.html" REL="nofollow">Clearance for wide tires</A>? <A HREF="http://www.pakebikes.com/pakemute.html" REL="nofollow">Cantilever brakes</A>? <A HREF="http://www.somafab.com/frames.html" REL="nofollow">Lightweight steel</A>? Assuming that you do have some crazy body type, then for less than the cost of this, you could easily have a near carbon-copy TIG-welded for you by <A HREF="http://www.gunnarbikes.com" REL="nofollow">Gunnar</A> or any number of other custom builders. Hell, you could probably even gets lugs for that much.<BR/><BR/>Also Joel, it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to dropouts.<BR/><BR/>A) Vertical dropouts offer significantly <I>less</I> flexibility for riders in terms of wheel placement, and that should be apparent to anyone who isn't blind.<BR/><BR/>B) Horizontal dropouts are never for "track use." Most velodromes won't let you through the gate with a conversion.<BR/><BR/>C) The significant advantage of vertical dropouts, as others have pointed out, is that it allows the rider to remove the rear wheel much quicker, and it also ensures that the wheel, when replaced, continues to align with the brakes/fenders/rack as it was intended.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-79914035208126344042008-06-24T22:59:00.000-04:002008-06-24T22:59:00.000-04:00Chris' 17 Janvier 2008 blog entry:"So it's time to...Chris' 17 Janvier 2008 blog entry:<BR/><BR/>"So it's time to launch a more affordable custom frame, the Pass Hunter. The new frame has the same geometry as the Randonneusse, uses fairly similar tubing, and is also built to measure. But there are major differences; this frame is TIG welded by Ahren Rogers. It uses a wider fork crown so it can fit tires to 35mm, and it uses cantilever brakes. There are no options on this frame, other than paint color, orange, brown, black, and green. The "paint" is a high quality powder coat with a clear coat."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-26980319816606302862008-06-24T21:51:00.000-04:002008-06-24T21:51:00.000-04:00What's makes a bike a Pass Hunter?Chris, could you...What's makes a bike a Pass Hunter?<BR/>Chris, could you speak more to the design goals of the frame?<BR/>How would a Pass Hunter differ from a randonneur or sport touring frame?<BR/><BR/>When you describe the frame as made to measure, does that ean no stock sizes?<BR/><BR/>ThanksSjbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818782738904584898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-7350963263326195022008-06-24T18:54:00.000-04:002008-06-24T18:54:00.000-04:00D Wagner said:"No problem changing wheels with tru...D Wagner said:<BR/><BR/>"No problem changing wheels with true horizontal, front facing ones. And you can vary the chain length/wheel base if you change tire sizes, which can't be done with vertical drops. No problem if you use a big tire all the time though."<BR/><BR/>Front-facing, horizontal dropouts can be a problem if you are running fenders and your tires fill them. The geometry is such that you may not be able to slide them forward enough to remove them without deflating the tire or messing around with your fenders. It is often a close fit. You'll be glad about these nice vertical drops if you run fenders. And unless you are running fixed gear, there is no reason to run horizontals. I do like how they look and they are definitely vintage, but I think verticals make a lot more sense.<BR/><BR/>KarlK Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10302994067650991669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-83142113725170753552008-06-24T11:28:00.000-04:002008-06-24T11:28:00.000-04:00Very nice...it reminds me of my 60's F W Evans...a...Very nice...it reminds me of my 60's F W Evans...a "real pass hunter"! The rear brake bridge and front fork lamp bracket are just about the same. The Evans is painted that deep dipped black colour though.<BR/>I'm confused about the "horizontal" drop out issue. The bike I see has what I would call fixed or vertical drop outs. I prefer true horizontal, front facing drop outs, like Campy brev or Simplex etc. I think folks are confusing these with "track ends" which are horizontal but face to the rear...for fast wheel changes on the track, but which do indeed make wheel changinfg with fenders very difficult. No problem changing wheels with true horizontal, front facing ones. And you can vary the chain length/wheel base if you change tire sizes, which can't be done with vertical drops. No problem if you use a big tire all the time though.<BR/>D Wagner<BR/>Richmond, KYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56862909739078114202008-06-24T10:53:00.000-04:002008-06-24T10:53:00.000-04:00HEY GUYS!!!$1350 is cheap, REALLY cheap for a U.S....HEY GUYS!!!<BR/><BR/>$1350 is cheap, REALLY cheap for a U.S. made custom sized bike. As soon as we say "custom", it means that the builder cannot cut a number of seat tubes all the same gauge and same length. It's one at a time. Buy or not, it's your choice, but don't bitch about to price.Gunnar Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451985764040900726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-2349869134642689962008-06-24T10:10:00.000-04:002008-06-24T10:10:00.000-04:00This frame has few options in order to keep the pr...This frame has few options in order to keep the price reasonable. It is built to measure and the tubing is selected for your weight and riding style. Of course you can choose paint and decal placement.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-45048766325939133852008-06-24T08:37:00.000-04:002008-06-24T08:37:00.000-04:00Someone who cannot differentiate between a low-tra...Someone who cannot differentiate between a low-trail custom frame from a top builder and a Surly might as well buy their bikes at Walmart. I saw a bike there that looked like a Surly and was only $300. It must be as good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36094956003811872122008-06-24T06:12:00.000-04:002008-06-24T06:12:00.000-04:00Perhaps Surly pays people to go around comparing w...Perhaps Surly pays people to go around comparing well designed and executed bikes to their product.<BR/><BR/>Like saying a Kia is as good as a BMW. Sheesh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-11407312009643541662008-06-23T23:54:00.000-04:002008-06-23T23:54:00.000-04:00Chris,Can you discuss your notion of "semi-custom?...Chris,<BR/><BR/>Can you discuss your notion of "semi-custom?"<BR/>What choices will buyers get in specifying the details of this frame?<BR/><BR/>ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-10715409990049934932008-06-23T23:17:00.000-04:002008-06-23T23:17:00.000-04:00cross checks have horizontal drop outs. Chris' bi...cross checks have horizontal drop outs. Chris' bike also has a few other brazed on bits that distinguish it. Also, my guess is that it is a fair bit lighter. Love my CC, though.<BR/>m burdgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-47048068454115404182008-06-23T23:08:00.000-04:002008-06-23T23:08:00.000-04:00Congratulations. You just made a very expensive Su...Congratulations. You just made a very expensive Surly Cross-Check.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82759415542455165552008-06-23T18:04:00.000-04:002008-06-23T18:04:00.000-04:00This is the most lugged-looking TIGged bike I have...This is the most lugged-looking TIGged bike I have seen, with the very attractive seat stays and the head tube caps. It almost looks lugged, which IMHO is a good thing. The price is attractive and I dig the color. Nice work on this Chris!<BR/><BR/>Also, for people asking about the vertical drops, they MUCH easier for removing wheels with fenders. It can be pretty hard with horizontal dropouts and big tires.<BR/><BR/>KarlK Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10302994067650991669noreply@blogger.com