tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post1499006732375770184..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Interbike ReportVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-85879981921786538532009-10-10T18:55:58.510-04:002009-10-10T18:55:58.510-04:00Planet Bike's "Superflash" rear blin...Planet Bike's "Superflash" rear blinky light is being produced with new logos as a house brand for at least two distributors. The LED isn't as bright or as durable as PB's, but the casing is identical. The copies are the result of PB losing its exclusivity clause with the factory. <br /><br />Will PB wring its hands over the "copies"? Not likely. This stuff happens ALL THE TIME in our industry. My guess is that the bright minds at PB will let it go and come up with a new innovation. <br /><br />Innovating is what keeps things fresh and brings along improvements on existing designs. Copying is what brings those ideas to more people in more price-points, and in our case serves to get more people onto bicycles, which, IMHO, is really the point of it all.<br /><br />Happy riding --Bethbikelovejoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141991025526354179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-88415513538922097532009-10-05T13:41:17.281-04:002009-10-05T13:41:17.281-04:00The brake and rack look nice. I'm especially ...The brake and rack look nice. I'm especially interested in the rack, which is obviously inspired by the old TA rack. The TA is my favorite front rack, as it suits the small/med front bag I normally use and it doesn't require any frame brazeons or clamps - probably one of the easiest racks to mount on bikes with Mafac brakes.<br /><br />The TA also mounts easily on old, engraved Weinmann 999 CP's as found on my 1962 Schwinn Superior. But more recent Weinmanns and their DiaCompe clones have arms with a thicker cross section and so require some modification of the TA rack with spacers and longer bolts to make it work. So a TA-type rack which fits most classic Weinmann/DiaCompe<br />CP's without modification would be useful. I'd hope that a VO rack would be designed to fit classic Mafac, Weinmann, and DiaCompe CP's, as well as the current DiaComps still made to the classic design, and Paul, as well as the CNC brakes you are contemplating. I think the biggest consideration here is the horizonal distance between the front of the fork and the brake pivot bolts. One could perhaps design the section with the bracket for securing to the fork to be adjustable. Or if that seems too cluttered, one could make the distance from fork crown to brake pivot bolts such as to accomodate the thickest brake one anticipated using. This would probably require spacers between the rack brake pivot mounts and the brake caliper for use with thinner brakes, as well as longer pivot bolts. I've found the spacers and bolts are easily available at hardware stores, but perhaps for convenience they could be included for the more popular brake options, or perhaps VO could sell "kits" to adapt for alternate brakesets.<br /><br />In the photo, it appears there is a light boss at the right rear of the rack, but I'm not sure the placement would allow use of a flashlight. Perhaps a production version should have light bosses on both sides and positioned to allow flashligh use.Jerry Moosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-71635546779775118592009-10-05T13:12:19.601-04:002009-10-05T13:12:19.601-04:00I was just at the library, and there parked outsid...I was just at the library, and there parked outside was an Electra Amsterday. I've seen the bike before, and had a conversation with the owner. She's a school nurse (there's an elementary school adjacent to the library) and uses this bike as her transportation to the several schools at which she works. She used to own a department store POS that got stolen, and she told me that after getting over the sticker shock of spending more on a bike than she's ever spent before, she thinks the thief did her a big favor. This is the best bike she's ever owned, and it makes bicycle transportation a practical reality for her.<br /><br />I didn't ride it, so I can't compare it with any the English 3-speeds I've ridden or owned in the past, and I certainly can't compare it to a real Dutch bike. But I am impressed by her attitude, and how well the bike seems to work for her.<br /><br />So for those who say Electras are fashion accessories, maybe for many, but definitely not for all.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34424678102551578092009-10-05T13:04:27.367-04:002009-10-05T13:04:27.367-04:00I take it patent/copyright protection is largely i...I take it patent/copyright protection is largely ineffective. I think you shouldn't overract to the Electra copies by keeping your projects secret. You will have to provide photos and descriptions when you offer the products for sale anyway. And I think the discussion of upcoming products on the Blog builds advance demand, and even more important, builds a sense of "community" among VO customers. I think your success in creating this sense of community has been a big reason for VO's success to date. Not familiar with Electra personally, but I take it from other comments they only sell complete bikes, so I don't see them as a threat to VO. And after all, all the classic manufacturers copied each other, though not as flagrantly as Electra seems to have done. My advice is, ignore them and keep doing what you have been doing.Jerry Moosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36685861347745874802009-10-04T13:58:18.370-04:002009-10-04T13:58:18.370-04:00Michael White, your point is well-taken. VO has u...Michael White, your point is well-taken. VO has updated and improved old but good designs; Electra is taking the form but not the substance of them. <br /><br />Whether or not Electra "copied" something VO did, I don't think they're going to take away any of VO's customers. If anything, as another poster said, they may actually create future customers for VO if even a few of the people who buy Electra bikes decide that they want their bikes to be something more than fashion or lifestyle accessories.Justine Valinottihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10852069587181432102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-52173869558772126892009-10-03T21:22:38.157-04:002009-10-03T21:22:38.157-04:00Whatever the legalities, it sucks about Electra. ...Whatever the legalities, it sucks about Electra. I was kind of hoping the offending bicycle company was one of those we all love to hate anyway like Pacific or Bikes Direct. I sorta liked Electra for what they've done to popularize non-competative bicyling. They could have made you a deal that would have benefitted both brands instead of just ripping off the design. I guarantee they wouldn't do that to Shimano or Tektro or any other large component maker they do business with. But I guess its okay step on little guys who don't have corperate attornies on staff. Unfortunately the same thing happens in other markets too. Big businesses rip off designs of popular hand-crafted items from etsy.com all the time. It happened to my wife, who used to sell a very distinctive style of girls' dresses on etsy (before CPSA put her out of business - but that's a different rant). I guess all you can do is hope that the added exposure brings in people looking for the real deal.<br /><br />John B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-69064081808403346862009-10-03T17:33:27.824-04:002009-10-03T17:33:27.824-04:00Wait a minute, Don't you guys constantly rip o...Wait a minute, Don't you guys constantly rip off other peoples designs? I'm thinking Brooks, Toei, Gilles Berthoud, Honjo, etc, etc. <br />From my perspective your company is built on other people's innovation. Am I wrong?<br />Come on, it's a bit rich complaining that someone "stole" your designs - nearly every product you've come up with is either a copy, or heavily inspired by either Herse, Singer, TA, or some other Frenchie.<br />In any case it's a different market. These guys are making complete, assembled bikes and you are selling bits to allow bike nuts to dress up their rando or city bike. Are we "ripping off" Shakespeare when we say "a rose by any other name?" Or was Mies van der Rohe "ripping off" Robert Browning when he said "less is more?"<br /><br />The previous statements are now property of Electra Bicycle Company. Thanks for doing all the work for us guys! We'll be happy to claim ownership over any other good ideas you may have in the future.<br />Best,<br />EBCELECTRAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-5190704882625479262009-10-03T17:01:24.114-04:002009-10-03T17:01:24.114-04:00It's possible to mount a light on a TA front r...It's possible to mount a light on a TA front rack that doesn't have a lamp fitting. I made one for my touring bike from some aluminum stock I got at Home Depot. Photos are here:<br /><br /><br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3543493248/<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3543488402/<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3542675803/<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3542674805/<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3542675803/<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/3542674805/Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127635083892565152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34309039044175047482009-10-03T16:17:52.880-04:002009-10-03T16:17:52.880-04:00"You should hear all the times that Tom or An..."You should hear all the times that Tom or Annette try to convince me to raise prices, pointing out how no one else sells a particular product or how some competitor sells it for much more. They get really frustrated with me."<br /><br />Chris, you need to fire them, they're bad for business ;>)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51055604209365708632009-10-02T22:22:11.139-04:002009-10-02T22:22:11.139-04:00The Ticino is strangely spec'd. Very high hand...The Ticino is strangely spec'd. Very high handlebars with downtube shifters and somewhat normal 50/39 chainrings. Strangely, those 50.4 cranks look like they use a 130 bcd for the middle chainring--making them as useless for commuters as modern racing cranks.<br /><br />Plus, it looks like the copied racks are just for looks on Electra's complete bikes. They're too expensive to manufacture to turn profits as accessories.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-87248738591452483462009-10-02T17:49:53.932-04:002009-10-02T17:49:53.932-04:00Those Centerpulls are sweet! I would definitely b...Those Centerpulls are sweet! I would definitely buy those. I know the Paul's brakes are well made but I don't like the look of them as much as the old Mafacs brakes. The Paul's look unfinished to me. Just my opinion. <br /><br />Thank you,<br />CraigMissoula Floodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111196170878184408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-5432601227331528842009-10-02T16:03:45.318-04:002009-10-02T16:03:45.318-04:00Greetings,
The cnc'd centerpull brake wi...Greetings,<br /><br /> The cnc'd centerpull brake with a Mafac-like mini rack is a superb item. <br /><br /> Best regardsKilroynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-64912861602560286832009-10-02T13:14:03.645-04:002009-10-02T13:14:03.645-04:00@Chris
"I started VO knowing..."
That&...@Chris<br /><br />"I started VO knowing..."<br /><br />That's, essentially, why I'll be using VO source components (stem, handlebar, grips, levers) to upgrade my Schwinn Collegiate soon.Josh Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969306131489466113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39811962081512827872009-10-02T11:41:03.550-04:002009-10-02T11:41:03.550-04:00Keep your focus on delivering practical, beautiful...Keep your focus on delivering practical, beautiful, and high quality cycling components and accessories and you'll have a large loyal customer base.<br /><br />Any attempt to use IP lawyers to protect your designs will cost way more in dollars and frustation than the value of lost sales to Electra or others, and it's probably futile as well.<br /><br />I have a great appreciation for the products you have sold to me. I always look to VO first for my cycling component and accesssory needs.Reynolds 531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-48501762754584268132009-10-02T11:25:01.344-04:002009-10-02T11:25:01.344-04:00"Does JP weigle or Banjo rip off Herse?"..."Does JP weigle or Banjo rip off Herse?"<br /><br />No, they didn't buy an RH and six months later come out with exact duplicates. They improve on old designs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56902579698270723072009-10-02T11:14:04.336-04:002009-10-02T11:14:04.336-04:00Does JP weigle or Banjo rip off Herse?Does JP weigle or Banjo rip off Herse?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39605569490229891332009-10-02T10:49:37.926-04:002009-10-02T10:49:37.926-04:00Tim, what I meant by that is that I started VO kno...Tim, what I meant by that is that I started VO knowing that it would never be a huge money maker. I simply wanted to have fun and provide some things that no one else did. Of course some profit is nice and even necessary to VO's survival, but money has never been terribly important to me. That is to say, I like to be comfortable, but have no desire to be filthy rich.<br /><br />You should hear all the times that Tom or Annette try to convince me to raise prices, pointing out how no one else sells a particular product or how some competitor sells it for much more. They get really frustrated with me.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32691105211854281692009-10-02T10:31:27.801-04:002009-10-02T10:31:27.801-04:00The Electra bikes are going to increase consumer a...The Electra bikes are going to increase consumer awareness of these classic styles of cycling accessories. I see the raised awareness as a good chance for increased awareness and sales of VO products. <br /><br />Electra is fashion oriented. VO is utility oriented with a eye toward aesthetics. Consumers will know the difference between Electra quality and VO quality. And Electra will have a new flavor next year. <br /><br />I would consider sending Electra a thank you card for the exposure.Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-87600418970177990182009-10-02T10:26:56.587-04:002009-10-02T10:26:56.587-04:00I suppose it shouldn't matter if Electra stole...I suppose it shouldn't matter if Electra stole VO ideas since VO is a company that was "started...not for mercenary reasons, but to fill a special need." So if that special need just gets filled more, then that's simply good, right?<br /><br />Which is a snide way of saying: I wish you would remove that line from your company description. VO is a for-profit company that does a wonderful job developing products at a better price point than much of its competition and sometimes supplies innovative products that don't have any competition at any price. <br /><br />The only thing "not for mercenary reasons" can possibly mean considering VO's totally normal business practices is that the owner was and is already wealthy enough to be able to take higher risks (on particular products, and, initially, on the prospects for longevity of the company.) <br /><br />The implied moral grandstanding over companies that are founded for "mercenary" reasons (i.e. to put food on the table?) is odd, and I think the claim that you're some kind of fancybikebits.org doesn't help your case when a situation like this arises where you're inclined to defend your revenue stream. <br />-TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-53917827478823118692009-10-02T08:59:50.062-04:002009-10-02T08:59:50.062-04:00I love you all and truly truly cherish VO, but thi...I love you all and truly truly cherish VO, but this is simply malarkey. There is no ripping off of ideas by this Electra company that I can see. These are simply based on traditional products. The designs are not patented or trademarked (though the VO logo should be), and is seems extremely doubtful that they could be meaningfully protected in this way. <br /><br />In fact, by making entire integrated bicycles rather than just components, you could argue that this Electra company is actually closer to the constructeur state of mind than a company which just manufactures components.<br /><br />While judging from the photo the Electra bikes aren't the most handsome things around, they seem pretty darn nice-looking. Would you rather have the world populated with those, or garish Wal-Mart bikes?Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09016373487910801383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-43765173957935818232009-10-02T08:36:06.375-04:002009-10-02T08:36:06.375-04:00Come on, it's a bit rich complaining that some...Come on, it's a bit rich complaining that someone "stole" your designs - nearly every product you've come up with is either a copy, or heavily inspired by either Herse, Singer, TA, or some other Frenchie.<br /><br />In any case it's a different market. These guys are making complete, assembled bikes and you are selling bits to allow bike nuts to dress up their rando or city bike.Andrew Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08917065225850153006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-5348216039275764522009-10-02T07:58:55.236-04:002009-10-02T07:58:55.236-04:00Michael, You might enjoy reading a little about th...Michael, You might enjoy reading a little about the style of bike and components VO makes. VO does not duplicate other companies products. Berthoud bags are based on La Fuma, TA, Solgn, and other older French bags, so are VO's. Brooks is one of a dozen leather saddle makers that made very similar saddles (not even the first); they are, however, one of the few survivors. VO saddles look more like Ideale saddles than Brooks.<br />Honjo makes copies of old French fenders; VO only makes interpretations of them. Toei makes near copies of classic Rene Herse bikes. VO bikes are their own design.<br /><br />Companies like Berthoud, Toei, Honjo, and Velo Orange make improved versions of classic discontinued products. They do considerable development work and design work to improve them. Electra simply duplicated another companies offerings. They stole VO's development work and designs.Le Cagotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-62702393511524361662009-10-02T02:22:10.424-04:002009-10-02T02:22:10.424-04:00Shades of Stephen Ambrose! That's just plain ...Shades of Stephen Ambrose! That's just plain theft! They actually bought your products and used them like they were theirs! I, for one, am now boycotting Electra and their dealers.Raiynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05008417835955777719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-68493437889968236422009-10-01T23:38:02.114-04:002009-10-01T23:38:02.114-04:00The 110/74 cranks sound nice, but how about a 94/5...The 110/74 cranks sound nice, but how about a 94/58 while you are at it? This is great for running my favorite 46-30 combo.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11268250997092573168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34736111475940236432009-10-01T23:02:46.703-04:002009-10-01T23:02:46.703-04:00Wait a minute, Don't you guys constantly rip o...Wait a minute, Don't you guys constantly rip off other peoples designs? I'm thinking Brooks, Toei, Gilles Berthoud, Honjo, etc, etc. <br />From my perspective your company is built on other people's innovation. Am I wrong?Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17511926446873913216noreply@blogger.com