tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post1431419490886858179..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Bits and PiecesVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-52321935618029511832014-03-22T02:16:28.752-04:002014-03-22T02:16:28.752-04:00Rm-013 are still made, and available to your LBS ...Rm-013 are still made, and available to your LBS that has access to Soma products.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13066149922965093626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-23757926164638252582009-08-13T18:31:10.242-04:002009-08-13T18:31:10.242-04:00looks like rivendale is now selling the dirt drop ...looks like rivendale is now selling the dirt drop bar again?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-22709536649174768502009-07-23T15:06:20.627-04:002009-07-23T15:06:20.627-04:00I really like those Guidonnet levers.
When are the...I really like those Guidonnet levers.<br />When are they available? the bike in my blog needs a set...mos atelierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972228096956852443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-64336341423362601212009-07-12T22:26:30.326-04:002009-07-12T22:26:30.326-04:00from http://tinyurl.com/28l4md
Nitto RM-13/14:
...from http://tinyurl.com/28l4md<br /><br />Nitto RM-13/14:<br /><br /><br />RM13 <br />Width brake bracket: C-C460mm <br />Bar-end width: C-C520mm <br />Drop: 140 mm<br />Reach: 95 mm<br />Weight: 359g (actual) <br /><br />RM14 <br />Width brake bracket: C-C400mm <br />Bar-end width: C-C520mm <br />Drop: 150 mm <br />Reach: 110 mm<br />Weight: 332g (actual)<br /><br />If you produced something like an RM-14 handlebar, I'd buy one.<br /><br />Here are photos of a bike that has a set of RM-14s:<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/floibex/sets/72157613118126598/jim ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02161517903295268167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-91613135241457790022009-07-09T15:14:01.138-04:002009-07-09T15:14:01.138-04:00really really really really want a set of those gu...really really really really want a set of those guidonnet levers, when will they be up on the site?marchttp://myspace.com/marcschreinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-22914494287385876702009-06-24T11:39:35.063-04:002009-06-24T11:39:35.063-04:00Anon 6:05:
Chris is not saying it can't be do...Anon 6:05: <br />Chris is not saying it can't be done, nor is he being dark and mysterious. It all takes time, and is an educational process for all involved- Velo Orange, our customers, even the factory making this stuff for us. <br /><br />I wish I still had the factory photos from more than a few years ago of the machines and processes I am about to shed some light on....<br />A steel headset is not made by hand on a lathe or mill, or CNC'ed from billet by a single operator standing behind a plastic window with a keyboard next to them. Cost efficiencies are attained by using old school hydraulic presses. They are HUGE- effin HUGE. The last one I saw that belched out coaster brake cogs and headset parts among other things was 22 feet tall, 18 feet square, and had an hourly capacity of 100 units. That's one machine. The factory in Taiwan had 3 working that day, with another 2 down for maintenance or re-tooling. <br /><br />These presses or forges or whatever you want to call them stamp/stomp the original raw material slugs 3-4 times into an almost perfect part- there is almost no further finishing that needs to happen. The threads are cut and the races are ground at the final step. They are deburred in a barrel polisher and sent off to the plater or other finishers where it comes back, checked for final QC, put in a box, and sent to Velo Orange (or another customer like Giant or Shimano or Campagnolo) for us to drool over. <br /><br />The cost effectiveness of retooling one machine for an obscure forging die they probably have to create anyway is completely lost for 100 pieces. If we were to go ahead and tell them to do it and bill us for all costs involved, I think you would be shocked at the real price we would have to sell it at. <br /><br />Tange probably destroyed their French thread tooling 10 years after they last got an OE order for such items. Anyone care to guess when that was?? Waiting 10 years to ditch the fixtures, tools, dies, etc is noble optimism to say the least. Their needs as a manufacturer are slightly different from that of us, or even our customers- In japan especially, space is at a premium and that space should be used for something else. A factory is not the place for hoarders and historians..... <br /> <br />Maybe a steel locknut and adjusting cone that is 100% CNC'ed would be cheaper, and we are working on that avenue, but it may not be. <br /><br />CNC machining aluminum is a lot easier, faster and cheaper than bearing quality steel, and we are looking into that as well. <br /><br />But it does take some time and we are continually surprised by the answers to our questions.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015305191743399671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-14317842089210196152009-06-23T02:20:52.474-04:002009-06-23T02:20:52.474-04:00another vote for WIDE rando barsanother vote for WIDE rando barserikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128941098449141122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-63714350934239842502009-06-22T18:05:21.139-04:002009-06-22T18:05:21.139-04:00Could Chris explain what it is that makes steel he...Could Chris explain what it is that makes steel headset production so difficult? He was also unclear about what he tried to have made. A new steel headset or an existing model with french thread? Did he go to tange?<br /><br />It's also unclear if the Levin in still available. If it is, what would make a french threaded version cost and volume prohibitive? What has to change? You'd reprogram the automated lathe and maybe change the cutting tool to get a different thread? It would take more energy to cut steel and you'd have to send everything to get plated, but what else if different? <br /><br /> It sounds to me like annonymous is pretty tired of reading us idiots ask stupid questions and came armed with some nice talking points he picked up from a manufacturing technology class but we don't know that any of these talking points apply here. It may be the case that no good steel headsets are made and that a french threaded model would require a whole new set of tooling. We have no idea. <br /><br /> We don't know anything aside from what chris tells us. It would be great if he'd give us more information, if he'd give us some insight into this dark and mysterious world rather than just telling us it can't be done. That's the sort of thing that would make this blog really interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-25430269389739903562009-06-22T17:42:37.744-04:002009-06-22T17:42:37.744-04:00i like the bottom bracket idea a lot. in regards t...i like the bottom bracket idea a lot. in regards to the mavic bottom bracket design: i bought a bike that had one installed and it didnt have the bottom bracket shell chamfered and it fit in exceptionally well with the bb's lockring/vinyl spacer hardware. while this is probably not ideal, it worked well and that bottom bracket is still amazingly smooth.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10762669106537895686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-88388983493407716772009-06-22T17:13:55.860-04:002009-06-22T17:13:55.860-04:00Hey anonymous, with regard to Tange Levin tooling,...Hey anonymous, with regard to Tange Levin tooling, yes I realize all of that. Note that I said "if it's still available." From what I've seen, some of the Japanese companies (notable Dia Compe) have kept this stuff around for years. I don't see what the harm is in checking if the tooling exists, particularly when weighed against the cost of completely new tooling.K Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10302994067650991669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-82458754539448545652009-06-22T11:27:43.298-04:002009-06-22T11:27:43.298-04:00Chris,
I started the RM013 movement here as an ano...Chris,<br />I started the RM013 movement here as an anonymous, if you have an interest, and do not have access to on of these bars, I can take a set of detailed photos for you, I would send the bar to you on loan, but is about about to go into a build and I only have the one. <br /><br />I think these were also offered by nitto in narrower widths, RM014, I have seen these on ebay, but lost and was not able to lay hands on them. If these were offered in the original RM013, and in a size smaller, say 42 or 44 at the front of the bends and 46 or 48 at the ends, As well as the larger RM013, I can think of at least 3 bikes I would put them on tomorrow. and 2 more I hope to build. I would then put at least 2 or 3 away in fear that these would go out of production again. I like them that much.<br /><br />Thank you for your work bringing us prouducts others are unwilling to invest in.<br /><br />RobUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02419165252351073857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-70103816566258722002009-06-22T00:52:19.823-04:002009-06-22T00:52:19.823-04:00What about talking to Nitto about making a version...What about talking to Nitto about making a version of the B-115 with longer reach - like 120. They already have the tooling. The design of B-115 would lend itself to a longer ramp.Brad Riendeaunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-33877715821794060992009-06-21T12:33:28.122-04:002009-06-21T12:33:28.122-04:00Chris, completely off-topic but related: Rhodia is...Chris, completely off-topic but related: Rhodia is a French company that makes writing pads and blank notebooks. They come with black or orange covers. <br /><br />products: <br />http://exaclair.com/brands_rhodia.shtml<br /><br />corporate blog: <br />http://rhodiadrive.com/<br /><br />david boise ID, recumbents rulebogiesanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359752754643505198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51105379702624306222009-06-21T11:23:53.921-04:002009-06-21T11:23:53.921-04:00The Nitto RM013 would be a great bar to recreate. ...The Nitto RM013 would be a great bar to recreate. I have been looking for one for a while, and they seem rarer than hen's teeth. I ride old Nitto Randonneur bars, and they're good, but sometimes I wish for a bit more flare and a bit flatter ramp. <br /><br />The Philippe Professionel gets plenty of praise from Jan Heine, and I believe one of the new Grand Bois bars is a copy of it. I haven't seen one up close, so it's hard for me to judge.<br /><br />Some of the alt bars suggested by folks remind me of Lauterwasser bars (see: http://www.theracingbicycle.com/James.html). They look cool, but I have my doubts about how comfortable they would be to ride for long periods of time.Halhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12934644513637899239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-69949749152166708802009-06-20T07:14:03.770-04:002009-06-20T07:14:03.770-04:00One other thing on the RM013: When positioned so t...One other thing on the RM013: When positioned so the upper flats are horizontal the lower flats were not; they tilted downward (the bars were designed so the upper flats were positioned with a bit of downward slope). So a Noodle-ification of this aspect (making the flats more parallel), along with a bit more length on the lower flats, would make this bar nearly perfect, IMO. M, SFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-78869477775493549132009-06-20T00:04:09.068-04:002009-06-20T00:04:09.068-04:00Cable housing clips for modern frames?
Thank you!!...Cable housing clips for modern frames?<br />Thank you!!!keithwwalkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11808096138218041326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-4762988175174902872009-06-19T21:44:34.035-04:002009-06-19T21:44:34.035-04:00One of the things missing from
modern bars is tha...One of the things missing from <br />modern bars is that the curve on the top- from the stem to the brake hoods in the horizontal plane is too tight. For some reason the designs have migrated to about 1.5" radius. This makes riding with hands on the bend painful. A wide radius on this dimension gives a longer ramp without extraordinary reach, although 100mm to 120 mm reach would be nice. A wide radius on top accomplishes the same thing as flaring the drops in terms of clearance for the hands. There is a machine that is sold from Shuz Tung in Taiwan that can do custom bar bending so finding someone who owns it should help. http://www.tube-pipe-bender.com/handlebar-production-series.htm The company that makes it also makes a CNC bender for making furniture & the like. SOMA has done a lot of custom bar development so getting inside info from them would help on who they use. Ruedatropical has a neat website on bar bends. A good bet would be the Philippe Professionel in wider sizes. 44, 46 and 48 would sell well I think.Brad Riendeaunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61950741678732320232009-06-19T21:13:47.704-04:002009-06-19T21:13:47.704-04:00I'll second the RM013. I had a pair and it wa...I'll second the RM013. I had a pair and it was the best drop bar I have ever used, except the extension on the drops (lower flats?) was a bit short. I think it was intentional as they were made to be used with bar ends. I traded my pair for something-or-other when I thought I was done with drops, but would like them back. Mel, SFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-36945593385322982932009-06-19T20:09:13.859-04:002009-06-19T20:09:13.859-04:00I also love the nitto dirt drop--rode one on my Ib...I also love the nitto dirt drop--rode one on my Ibis for years. I was recently given a nos one by a friend, which I am jealously guarding, as well as the one I got off the iBOB list a couple of years back that I will be using for a restoration of the ibis. I like other bars, but I had lots of fun while hanging on to this one.<br />mburdgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56294018833575620202009-06-19T20:08:59.207-04:002009-06-19T20:08:59.207-04:00I second the vote for the "South of France&qu...I second the vote for the "South of France" bars.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13301867157233403838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-51218458587338350462009-06-19T18:45:51.841-04:002009-06-19T18:45:51.841-04:00WRT conjuring up the tooling from Tange to re-crea...WRT conjuring up the tooling from Tange to re-create the Levin French headset : production tooling is usually designed around a specific run of parts. Tooling is often referred to as "perishable" because it needs maintenence and care (even in storage) and is often made to fit a certain machine tool that the company might have gotten rid of years, or even decades ago. What good does this stuff do for a company other than collect dust and take up room ? Which is a long answer to the short question of "why don't you just call up so-and-so and have them make a new run of obsolete widgets from 30 years ago". It is rarely ever that simple, especially when the small quantities / small profits intersect with the big headaches that would usually accompany such a "project".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-61645192794608145872009-06-19T18:12:52.304-04:002009-06-19T18:12:52.304-04:00Chris, I discovered that the Tange Levin was once ...Chris, I discovered that the Tange Levin was once available in French thread. Perhaps you could work something out with them like you did with Sugino for special order products? That might save you on tooling costs if they still have the tooling available. Cheers, KarlK Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10302994067650991669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-29118971105941236462009-06-19T16:36:39.279-04:002009-06-19T16:36:39.279-04:00Here is a link to the best example of the rm013 I ...Here is a link to the best example of the rm013 I could find, the view in the old bridgestone catalogs is not very good,<br />http://www.heronbicycles.com/hog7.html<br />Also My set can be sen in Rawland's tribe 4 photo set<br />http://www.rawlandcycles.com/about/index.php?strWebAction=gallery_detail&intGalleryID=866Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-24165206505232622262009-06-19T16:28:03.247-04:002009-06-19T16:28:03.247-04:00The Nitto RM013 is my Perfect bar. They were last...The Nitto RM013 is my Perfect bar. They were last sold as Rivendell dirt drops. My research has led me to belive that Ibis and the Bridgestone MB1 had simiar bars, if not the same. I contacted Rivendell, but they were not interested in dealing with the minimum order from Nitto. The bars are between a noodle and the WTB dirt drops. Slightly more flare than a noodle, not as much as the DD. Drop and reach similar to the noodle. Width is like a 48 noodle at the tips, but 44 or so at the bends. The other key thing is that the flats bend slightly forward, not back as on the noodles. The flare and the forward bend are the real home runs for me. Used ebay value around $25, but they hardly ever come up. If you go with something like these I would be very tempted to stockpile, A BUNCH. These may also be of interest to the crowd buying up the Rawland type bicycles.<br /><br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-222285043746499612009-06-19T13:48:13.218-04:002009-06-19T13:48:13.218-04:00How about some "South of France" bends, ...How about some "South of France" bends, as on <a href="http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/HetchinsSwallow1970.html" rel="nofollow">this bike</a> (scroll down for front view ). <br /><br />Charge bikes put a bar a bit like this on their <a href="http://www.chargebikes.com/products/bikes/images/big/Plug_Racer.jpg" rel="nofollow">Racer</a> model but don't sell them separately. So they are made somewhere...fmackaynoreply@blogger.com