tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post117199579890402818..comments2024-03-18T10:19:55.782-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: A Blue FrameVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172975355260586312007-03-03T21:29:00.000-05:002007-03-03T21:29:00.000-05:00Silly is subjective.Silly is subjective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172877751964391732007-03-02T18:22:00.000-05:002007-03-02T18:22:00.000-05:00yes proper is subjective, as is bike fit in genera...yes proper is subjective, as is bike fit in general. <BR/>i was being a little facetious (sp?)<BR/>however, if the masters herse and singer, the taylor bros. or countless others would seat you on a frame with 3-4" of seat tube showing allowing handlebars to be level with, or slightly below saddle height, without silly long quils, headtube extensions, upsloping top tubes, 70 degree stems of any of the other works of beelzebub, then what is proper?<BR/><BR/>simonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172699064869651962007-02-28T16:44:00.000-05:002007-02-28T16:44:00.000-05:00"why would they be so resistant to riding a proper..."why would they be so resistant to riding a properly sized frame?"<BR/><BR/>Simple answer: Proper is subjective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172664488415311632007-02-28T07:08:00.000-05:002007-02-28T07:08:00.000-05:00i'm sure attention has moved from here along with ...i'm sure attention has moved from here along with the discussion. but i just saw your message joel and thought i would say <BR/>"geeze thanks for the history lesson!"<BR/><BR/>i had read all the posts above and below my first (which was the one that originally brought up the subject of the head tube extension).<BR/><BR/>it seems to me that lower top tubes and so lower head tubes are a function of fashion which in bicycles, as in most things is cyclical (geddit?). low and long top tubes were the order of the day in the 30's and are that way again (low anyway). i think this is more to do with the influence of mountain bike design than 'racing geometry becoming the norm rather than the exeption'. this gave birth to compact frames which are due also to aero brake levers giving safe predictable braking from the hoods. this has made 'on the hoods' the primary riding position for racers and most fast rec riders. increase in BB height is also a factor.<BR/><BR/>i don't understand the deal with stand over height, i can reach the ground comfortably with my toe whilst seated on all my bikes even my 54 gillott track frame which has a 50mm BB drop. <BR/>the 50s herses singers etc would only show a couple of inches of seat post and these were touring/randonneuring bikes, there is more need to stand on your bike when cycling long distances.<BR/><BR/>you don't need a head tube extention you need a bigger frame!<BR/><BR/>also they're are butt-ugly<BR/>imho<BR/><BR/>and if 'my' 50's and 60s geometry wont sell it looks bad for VO! <BR/>kogswell seem to be doing well with their P/R unfortunately it also has a head tube extension.<BR/><BR/>maybe a little education is all that's needed, if people are inspired to buy these frames by jan heine's book and mid century french cyclotourist bikes in general, why would they be so resistant to riding a properly sized frame?<BR/><BR/>cheers,<BR/>simonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172256084059322422007-02-23T13:41:00.000-05:002007-02-23T13:41:00.000-05:00Lesli, Right now the lights I'm making use old Fre...Lesli, Right now the lights I'm making use old French housings bought on E-bay. They are re-polished and I'm stuffing modern LEDs into them. It's far from cost effective. So until we find a manufacturer to make new ones, or get some that are being made in Japan, they will be for folks willing to do their own conversions.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172254233840370862007-02-23T13:10:00.000-05:002007-02-23T13:10:00.000-05:00I love the idea of the LED seatpost light. Is tha...I love the idea of the LED seatpost light. Is that something which will be standard on all the VO frames--or still in the prototype phase of production?<BR/><BR/>LLLesli Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13008748945065043600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172251935548943552007-02-23T12:32:00.000-05:002007-02-23T12:32:00.000-05:00Simon:Older bikes had higher standover than the ne...Simon:<BR/><BR/>Older bikes had higher standover than the newer bikes. <BR/><BR/>When racing geometry became the norm rather than the exception, the drive for 'optimal' standover lowered the head tubes.<BR/><BR/>If you read through the posts above, you will see that many of us agree bikes designed with higher frames will get acceptable handlebar reach without HT extensions.<BR/><BR/>The problem is the bike buying market is now so conditioned to look for standover above all else that bikes with your 1950s and 60s geometry will not sell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172251706024368662007-02-23T12:28:00.000-05:002007-02-23T12:28:00.000-05:00The rear light will be a battery powered LED light...The rear light will be a battery powered LED light. But we could do internal wiring if someone wanted it.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172246307952432852007-02-23T10:58:00.000-05:002007-02-23T10:58:00.000-05:00i'm glad there's the option for no head lug extens...i'm glad there's the option for no head lug extension.<BR/>i ride with my bars a good 2" below saddle top, my fixed bike has a 4 inch drop! but i understand that others like/need higher bars. however i too feel that the 'bars level with saddle' mantra is chanted too often. i'm going to keep riding a 2-3" drop as long as i can.<BR/><BR/>when did these headlug extensions become common? is it an american thing? most of my bikes are 50s and 60s british so maybe that's why it just looks odd to my eye.<BR/><BR/>incidently, have you ever noticed that what you consider a good looking, well proportioned frame seems most often to be the one that's your size? anything other than a 22 1/2" - 23 1/2" just looks wrong to me. ;-)<BR/><BR/>Chris, do your plans for the rear light mounting include internal wiring? how is that done on french constructeur frames? is the mounting bolt hollow?<BR/><BR/>simonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172246263968180872007-02-23T10:57:00.000-05:002007-02-23T10:57:00.000-05:00Those of us who know Chris even a little bit know ...Those of us who know Chris even a little bit know that this bike is costing you a terrible price. ;>) Like my wife says about her rose garden. It's low- maintance. She just has to sleep with the gardener. <BR/><BR/>A neighbor kid and I built up an unidentified handbuilt that had been resprayed a similar color. He chose blue wraps, blue cable housing and blue tires. He calls it the Smurf Cycle and purely loves it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172240606142261132007-02-23T09:23:00.000-05:002007-02-23T09:23:00.000-05:00The blue frame is for Annette and she promised to ...The blue frame is for Annette and she promised to post about it soon.<BR/><BR/>Right now we only offer slap guards with our frames. The problem is that they are too cheap. So no one wants to bother to export them from Japan unless we buy a 50-year supply. I'm going to try to work up an order from the company that includes a lot of other neat small stuff they have. Hopefully it'll be big enough in total to bother with. Jitensha Studio usually has a few.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172179046045263262007-02-22T16:17:00.000-05:002007-02-22T16:17:00.000-05:00chris,are you going to be selling those type of ch...chris,<BR/>are you going to be selling those type of chainstay protectors? I need on for a bike. I didn't see them on your site.<BR/>ralphAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172174169108226282007-02-22T14:56:00.000-05:002007-02-22T14:56:00.000-05:00Chris,Is this blue frame for you? Or a VO customer...Chris,<BR/><BR/>Is this blue frame for you? Or a VO customer? If from a customer, I'd love to hear his/her comments...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172173776514173132007-02-22T14:49:00.000-05:002007-02-22T14:49:00.000-05:00Frederick,I was a nerd before it was cool. I think...Frederick,<BR/><BR/>I was a nerd before it was cool. I think nerds are almost a majority and always have been. But I liked that blue because it brought out the blue color in my eyes :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172162414386117332007-02-22T11:40:00.000-05:002007-02-22T11:40:00.000-05:00"Whatever works - we are really talking a few inch..."Whatever works - we are really talking a few inches here, man we must come across as completely obsessive or extreme nerds to the masses! :)"<BR/><BR/>Stuff 'em, they don't love bicycles like we do.<BR/><BR/>Anyhow, if I have more than a passing interest in something, I want, nay need to know every minute detail in and around it. If that makes me a nerd, so be it.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I can't understand people who are the opposite. If ignorance is bliss the masses are welcome to it ;).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172159972826187602007-02-22T10:59:00.000-05:002007-02-22T10:59:00.000-05:00It's interestnig that we all(well, most) have opin...It's interestnig that we all(well, most) have opinions on colors and head tube extensions, but nobody wants to jump in and flail away at "trail". And I had my "low trail isn't necessarily better" speech all ready to unlease on the world too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172158697167944572007-02-22T10:38:00.000-05:002007-02-22T10:38:00.000-05:00Chris,I also wanted to say thanks for publicly sha...Chris,<BR/>I also wanted to say thanks for publicly sharing the stages of product development so candidly with us. It's rare and special that we can discuss something we are all passionate about and, in a way, develop it together. You truly listen to your customers opinions, criticisms, need & wants (more or less on a daily basis). The VO blog is a treasure and is usually my second stop on the net after an email check. I cant help but want to attribute at least some of VO's success to your open and frequent line of communication. I know that I personally would like to see this a LOT more from other special interest/"niche" suppliers I buy from (both inside and outside of cycling).<BR/><BR/>As Woody Allen says in Annie Hall when he pulls Marshall McLuhan from behind a movie standee "Boy, If life were only like this."<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>nvAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172157522856373312007-02-22T10:18:00.000-05:002007-02-22T10:18:00.000-05:00I understand where Neil, Frederick and Chris are c...I understand where Neil, Frederick and Chris are coming from with these last 3 comments...<BR/>and Frederick, I too prefer a tall bike with shorter TT.<BR/>Horses for courses, I suppose.<BR/>I don't think I could ride a 64. I once had a 61.5 c-t-c Holdsworth that fit and rode on the tall side and I didn't enjoy that fit at all. And regarding adjusting to a lower stem/more aero position on the bike - that I can do, and had done, for a long while. I'm 33 and on the lean side and rode racing bikes for several years before I gravitated towards my current preference of "bars near saddle". The aero bit doesn't concern me as I've intentionally slowed my pace and riding style over the years and I find a more upright position feels much better on the neck and shoulders.<BR/>Whatever works - we are really talking a few inches here, man we must come across as completely obsessive or extreme nerds to the masses! :)<BR/>nvAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172154636753180562007-02-22T09:30:00.000-05:002007-02-22T09:30:00.000-05:00The final choice in bar height is to remain flexib...The final choice in bar height is to remain flexible and not need to set your bars so high. I think a lot of folks set bar height higher than it really needs to be in order to be instantly comfortable. I'll bet that if they set it an inch lower and endured for a couple of weeks they would get used to it and still be comfortable. This pays a fair dividend in aerodynamics. I'm not saying everyone should ride in the same position as a racer, but I wonder if the pendulum hasn't swung a bit too far in the other direction.Velo Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172153563674603302007-02-22T09:12:00.000-05:002007-02-22T09:12:00.000-05:00I'm with Frederick, in theory if not always in my ...I'm with Frederick, in theory if not always in my practice. Stand over height is silly, a least for me. A sloped top tube raises the head tube, but then you end up with a really long seat tube. So we have three choices: long stem and/or head extension, long seat tube, or no standover. The last option certainly looks better in a classic way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172145301699506362007-02-22T06:55:00.000-05:002007-02-22T06:55:00.000-05:00NV, I'm also 6' with long legs in comparison to my...NV, I'm also 6' with long legs in comparison to my torso. Most people of our height range are built this way. This used to be(still is in places) catered for by a shorter top tube, say 58cm or so on a 62/64cm frame.<BR/><BR/>I find the best fit for me(i.e not miles of flexy quill/steerer)is a 64cm frame with a shorter top tube. Of course, one cannot straddle a 64cm frame, but then pre-80's one would not be expected to. <BR/><BR/>The racing scene turning to much smaller frames has given birth/intermingled with this idea of standover height.<BR/><BR/>Read any good cycling book prior to this time and you'll find people were required to stay seated, take one foot off a pedal and lean over until their foot was planted firmly on the road.<BR/><BR/>This way of cycling has been forgotten/buried, possibly because it's thought of as old hat. Lest we forget, you'd never see ye ol' English clubman with much more than three inches of quill exposed, as he was riding a correctly sized frame!.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172142894224771452007-02-22T06:14:00.000-05:002007-02-22T06:14:00.000-05:00The blue color unfavorable observations are an opt...The blue color unfavorable observations are an optical illusion. Look at the photos in black and white. They may still have a slight bias due to shades. But adjust the shading to converge easier in black and white, and they will look identical.<BR/><BR/>That blue is cool and its different. So what? The light metallic color paint jobs are planned paint obsolecense. So if you are not supporting paint industry, I'd go with this as a possible alternative. That paint will look good for a long time and will be easy to touch up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172115181282190102007-02-21T22:33:00.000-05:002007-02-21T22:33:00.000-05:00headtube extensions are a very very good thing whe...headtube extensions are a very very good thing when you need them, and not a big deal if you don't. <BR/><BR/>the wrapped stays are nice, like my 70's french bikes. the hype then was that it strengthened the lug and was a performance thing. (ha.) but elegant.<BR/><BR/>the fork crown also, yes. <BR/><BR/>the color, no. I wouldn't do blue at all, unless it were a riviera blue. on that bike, I mean. inmo.<BR/><BR/>mwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172112852467055002007-02-21T21:54:00.000-05:002007-02-21T21:54:00.000-05:00NV:Point taken.Real quick on the sloping top tube,...NV:<BR/><BR/>Point taken.<BR/><BR/>Real quick on the sloping top tube, Bruce Gordon, Mike Flanagan and Sarah Gibson at Acme Bicycle in KC all have used sloping TTs to minimize HT extension and stem length.<BR/><BR/>Aesthetically, I prefer getting the fit from the frame. But I understand as all bodies are different, it would be hard to expect one solution to fit all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-1172102906840735392007-02-21T19:08:00.000-05:002007-02-21T19:08:00.000-05:00Joel & FrederickI have several frames that fit ver...Joel & Frederick<BR/>I have several frames that fit very well and one or two that put the top tube right up in my crotch and I still need a Nitto Technomic or Persicopa stem to get the bars level with my saddle (my personal preference). I don't think it's as easy as saying "Ride the Right Size" - maybe it's my body - I'm 6'with long legs and short torso. The only frame I've owned that I could use a standard length quill stem was a Rambouillet - and that had both a slight upslope of the TT and a HT extension.<BR/>nvAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com