03 April, 2007

The New Blue

The photo does not do it justice, but this is our new stock blue. It's grayer and darker than the photo shows, at least on my screen. Everyone who has seen it loves it. The color is a little like denim, but darker.

So who knows which seat post that is? Here is a hint: it's the most copied design of all time.

This frame will be built up with a TA triple and Campy 9-spd shifters and dérailleurs.

32 comments:

neil m berg said...

Does the first correct answere get a free post? Lapstrake(sp?).

I like the blue a lot.

Anonymous said...

Nice looking frame. BTW, what is that bit under the seatstays? It kind of looks like a cantilever stud.

Chris

Chris Kulczycki said...

Lapstrake? That means overlapping planks. Sure, if you get it right you can post something ;<)

The stud is for a little rear light we're developing.

neil m berg said...

Okay, if I said "Laprade" would I get to post again?

Anonymous said...

SR Laprade?

-- Steve Palincsar

Anonymous said...

It doesn't look anything like the SR Laprade on my bike.

Chris

Anonymous said...

I like that blue a lot -- wish I could say "make mine that color!". I also like the decals in the more normal place -- they're great-looking decals. Howsabout a VO on the seat tube as well?

Dan S.

Chris Kulczycki said...

SR did not make the original Laparde, it was French, but they did make copies. The copies evolved and later ones no longer looked exactly like the original. I'm not sure exactly how old the one on the bike is, but it is a French-made version.

neil m berg said...

Hey Chris, If I don't get away with zoning out with "Lapstrake", you don't get a pass for "Laparde" either.

Chuck Schmidt said...

"So who knows which seat post that is? Here is a hint: it's the most copied design of all time."

I'd have to say the most copied seat post of all time would have to be the original micro-adjust, two bolt Campagnolo Record seatpost from 1956.

Chuck

Brian said...

Like that blue.

Brian said...

Like that blue.

Anonymous said...

Simplex seatpost

Anonymous said...

It looks a lot like the French Laprade that was on my wife's Mercier until it broke on her. It was the post's problem--my wife is very easy on equipment. I believe it was the bolt that broke, and if I am continuing to remember, the bolt was an odd size and could not be replaced, so we put a lovely SR two bolt (campy copy) post on, from a used bin, which has done its job admirably for years. I believe the 'SR Laprade' arose from a partnership between the two companies. I have never had a problem with the SR Laprade posts, and my guess is that there are good reasons for their widespread use--cheap, relaible,reasonable weight, acceptable adjustment...not at the top of any of these categories, but a very good all round part that deserves more recognition.
M Burdge

Anonymous said...

"SR did not make the original [Laprade]".

Interesting, I did not know that. However, I'm fairly new to road bikes, having been strictly a mountain biker for the past 20 years.

Chris

neil m berg said...

Chris,
You made a bold statement that the seatpost in question was "the most copied of all time"; an opinion that the venerable Mr. Schmidt dismissed. Aren't you going to defend your position? We're all looking for a little action here.

-Trouble Maker

Anonymous said...

Chris,
Post a representative picture of the frame details and the blue. I really want to know what it looks like.

Alf

Chris Kulczycki said...

I think Chuck is right in that more manufacturers copied the Campy post. But in numbers produced there have to be many more of the Laprade type. They were, and are, common on millions of Asian mid range bikes. Kalloy still makes them today.

Now that I think about it, the straight steel post with a separate clamp that's on millions of British, Indian, and Chinese utility bikes is even more common.

I'll post photos of that frame as soon as it's built up. But there are lots of frame detail shots here: http://tinyurl.com/3xcltj

neil m berg said...

Is the same painter (and colors) going to finish the town bikes?

Chris Kulczycki said...

Same painter, different colors. You should know that. You selected the city bike blue. Only the black will be the same.

Karl Held said...

Hey Chris - I'm Guessing that's a Satri Imex seatpost, but I can't remember what they looked like for sure.

Anonymous said...

That headtube extension just looks wrong, esp on a frame as small as this.

Anonymous said...

"Suweeeeet!"

nv said...

anon wrote:
"That headtube extension just looks wrong, esp on a frame as small as this."
I respectfully disagree. Once this frameset is built up, with a nice silver quill stem, silver bars and a silver rack, the front end will look well proportioned and it should be a lovely bike.
Of course these things are subjective but I absolutely prefer a HT extension over a whole bunch of exposed Nitto Dynamic quill.

Joel said...

"Of course these things are subjective but I absolutely prefer a HT extension over a whole bunch of exposed Nitto Dynamic quill."

Excellent point. Unless the design is absolutely ridiculous - and this lovely bike is anything but - no need for broad brush criticism.

If you do not like something fine. We are grown ups here. Tell us what you like and why you don't like this bike.

But don't say it is wrong. There is plenty right about that bike. Even if it isn't for every one.

Chuck Schmidt said...

"Of course these things are subjective but I absolutely prefer a HT extension over a whole bunch of exposed Nitto Dynamic quill."

Traditionally these bikes were supposed to be sized on the large size so there wouldn't be a lot of seat post showing and the bars would be up as high as the saddle without a lot of quill showing either.

In other words, no need for the head tube to extend upwards.

Chuck

frederick said...

OK, I'll be a little less broad.

You see, the thing is, I see these nice frames, built up with nice components, by people who obviously aren't flash in the pan about their cycling. They know what they like and they like it because it's functional, prior to any concerns about fashion or vogue.

Then I see these headtube extensions and I think unnecessary and unattractive.

Now I've seen a 52cm(or thereabouts) with a headtube extension, which is about 1/4 the length of the headtube and it really isn't sitting well with me.

A person who rides a 52cm frame in need of such an extension, should actually be riding a 56cm. Which'd be a stronger frame for not having such a extension.

To get people(by people I mean Americans, the problem is present to a lesser extent elsewhere) to accept such an idea is akin to asking them to rob a bank for somebody else's benefit. Such are the feelings against it.

Even amongst those that frequent this website, who've seen many a Herse, Singer et al less headtube extension, the idea is a pernicious one.

And for what reason?, that bicycle shops having been selling small bicycles to customers for the past twenty years. Ask yourselves why such downsizing came about, it was not for the benefit of the cyclotouriste of that one can be sure. So then what bearing does it have on us, why do we let it control us so?.

Let's us break new (old) ground and bring back the logical, comfortable , correct bicycle frame.

Chris Kulczycki said...

We'll give the customer any head tube extension they want. But we have already decided that the "stock" head tube extension will be lower than what you see here.

Anonymous said...

I too am not fond of head tube extensions because I think there are other ways to skin the cat that are a bit more aesthetically pleasing to my eye. Ride a larger frame. I'm also not keen on slope, even that 2d stuff that almost looks level. I've no problem standing over a bike that just touches. All that said, I have bikes with both of these features and they look pretty good...just not perfect. If someone wants a threadless stem, which is nothing new as Herse riders know, then a bit of ht extension can be desireable, as I see it. When we design a Tournesol we look to Toei, Mariposa, and Singer for our primary aesthetic inspiration. But a 98er, that is, a bike that get 98% of the aesthetic is about a MILLION times better than, say, 99.9% of all the modern stuff that passes off as the latestgreatest. YMMV. I look forward to seeing this bike built up 'cause that changes aesthetic values too, no? Nice bike, nice color. ---dbrk who couldn't get the login to work so I look like an anon here...

nv said...

Well, if riding a taller frame works for some then it works for some. It doesn't work for me. I don't mind riding a frame where the top tube touches my crotch when straddling the bike but I do not like riding a frame where I have to tilt the bike towards the ground to place a foot down. I need a HT extension or a really long quilled stem (which I don't like)to get the bars where I prefer them and still be able to straddle the bike. Am I a victim of marketing? I don't think so... Is my body different than "average"? I guess so...
Of course, I have no problems with tweaking tradition.
Horses for courses.
nv

Anonymous said...

on ht extensions:

erichie has spoken more than once on this. He attributes the widespread use of extensions on modern versions of traditional style lugged frames to the loss of headset stack height. He's right about that, if you compare a headset like ultegra or chris king to older headsets, you'll see a significant difference, which in some cases can't be made up for with spacers, because not all headsets can even take spacers, besides which an extension functions better and looks better than a lot of spacers. And look, probably the most successful purveyor of traditional, practical bikes is Grant Peterson, who ALWAYS sells bikes with a tall headtube AND a tall quill. He's not the only one though, most builders now of the world's most beautiful lugged bikes use extensions. Sachs included.

There's plenty of sense in all this. There are lots of us who are in good shape and ride hard, but for various reasons do better with bars about at seat height. We have tried everything, and the best way to accomplish this is with an extension. Sorry if some don't like the LOOK of this, but as a result some people like nv might find criticisms of extensions based on some obscure, outdated, inarticulate, illogical, and inappropriate aesthetic bias more than a little frustrating.

michael white

e-RICHIE said...

hey michael white - cool!

look at it this way: head tube extensions on lugs, when gracefully added into the aesthetic, OR some spacers in the headset (for me, 18mm is the legal limit atmo), take the place of what was - back in the day - the long honking quill (B.H.Q.) sticking up out of the threaded headset.

you're right. frame and component design now incorporates rider position in a way that somehow must pay the price for "miniature" headsets as well as the 90s move from threaded to threadless (although most threaded headsets lost at least 5mm in the 90s too when compared with the vintage era).

the rider position may be constant through the eras, but the path that the contact points take to arrive at their destination(s) are affected by industry's parts du jour atmo.

i don't like compact frames, but i can look at a sloper (they're two different animals atmo). and if a top tube slants up no more than 2-3 degrees to limit a head tube extension, i'm cool with it. more than that, and, for me, the elegance of a bicycle is gone.

ichie
the R is silent atmo...